I thought all Damsels were tough fish

3rdimension

New member
Apparently not. Mt aquarium is mostly through cycling process, my Allens Damsel suffered the most when the nitrite never got past 0.25 and the ammonia never went past 0.25 as long as it has been in the aquarium and both levels are decreasing daily.

So I placed it in a 10 gallon hospital tank to help revive it. It did well for 1 day, then I made a big booboo! I mixed salt in another 5 gallon water bucket, and didn't mix it long enough and wait 24 hours as highly recommended. I only learned what newly mixed salt can do to fish's gills if the salt hasn't cured for 24 hours. Burning the poor fish alive! It was pretty evident that's what it was doing to the poor fella after watching it's reaction in the hospital tank for maybe 30 minutes to 1 hour. Keep in mind at this point, I didn't know what newly mixed salt can do to a fish and was clueless why it was stressing so bad.

I finally decided to place him back in the main aquarium still cycling and at nearly 0 ppm ammonia and below 0.25 ppm nitrite. I had the fish in there overnight to at least give it some what more comfortable and not as painful of an experience. When I saw it the next morning it was laying on it's side breathing heavily and barely moving.

Back to square one again! So I decided to take out most the new salt mixed water in the hospital tank, then replace it with the main aquarium water and 1 gallon of fresh water. It has struggled to stay alive for over 12 hours now and on it's last limb and probably dying or dead as I speak.

I wish someone in the trade would have told me WHY your supposed to mix salt for 24 hours before placing it in the tank! and not just tell me that's what you should do! In the past I never waited 24 hours of mixing before replacing with new salt water, that's because I had 180 gallon tank with extra 40 gallons constantly running through it, and the water changes I made were usually only 5-10% of the volume, which had little to no effect on the fish. I never thought how it would effect a fish in larger quantities until now. I had to learn that on my own by researching on the internet.

Oh well hard lesson learned. I know it's just a $5 Damsel, but it has/had a life, a precious one and was really awesome in it's coloration and patterns. I guess I'll just have to pick up another one as soon as the tank is fully cycled. My 2 clown fish, black and white striped humbug damsel are doing awesome! and the other two damsels are doing just fine. I guess not all of them will be tough enough.
 
The tank was already mostly cycled more than half way complete before I placed any fish in. Before that I cycled with ammonia, fish food and live bacteria for about a month. Like I said, most of them did fine, minus 1. It was mainly the fresh salt mix that did that one damsel in. the rest of them were fine though.
 
update: I gently held the damsel in the cup of my hand in the water of the aquarium as it took it's last short breaths. It wasn't long until it's entire body went into convulsing vigorous shakes for a few seconds, then it was gone. no more suffering. poor little guy. That would be the first time I felt the intense struggle of any creature suffering in the palm of my hand. It put up a good fight.

I couldn't help thinking of how I lost my dad in 2007 and having to watch him struggle, suffer and fight for his life. Life is a short and precious thing that should be cherished everyday. Even for the tiniest of creatures. I'm sure a lot of passionate hobbyists get pretty attached to their fish as well.

It's been a while since I had a salt tank. This isn't new to me at all and I know mostly what I'm doing, minus cycling an aquarium without fish and recently learning the importance of curing salt mix for 24 hours. When I first started the hobby 10 years ago, everyone cycled with damsels until live rock cycling was discovered, then ammonia and food cycling after that.
 
Never put even a snail into a tank that has not finished cycling. A fish should be qt'ed for 4 weeks prior to entry into the display tank.
I'm very sorry you lost the poor thing. Understand that the salt mixes are complex mixtures of chemicals, and even with a mag 12 for a mixing pump, it takes time to get it all dissolved. There is also the question of salinity change. .002 is about as far as you can push it as a difference between one salinity and another: a sudden salinity change (and in undissolved-salt salt water, it may not have been salty enough fast enough) can be damaging to kidneys. But I agree, it was probably burned gills, either burned by the ammonia, the salt, or both. Please read the "You asked for it" sticky in the newbie forum, so that you can get the skinny on current best thought in reefkeeping, and it may help you understand how to have a much better second experience.
 
Never put even a snail into a tank that has not finished cycling. A fish should be qt'ed for 4 weeks prior to entry into the display tank.
+1...

FWIW...word is that ESV salt can be mixed and used immediately...(good to have for an emergency!)
 
Thanks Sk8r, I checked out that thread in the newbie forum which I am not, if you were thinking I was. I already mentioned half a dozen times in previous threads that I started, that I'm no where near a newb to this trade, it's just been a while since I have run a salt tank and a few things have changed since last time, and I may need to be brought up to speed a little bit with a few reminders since it's been a while. I like the idea of using a mushroom rock, but I already promised myself nothing with live rock this time since I don't like bristle worms which spread very quickly. In my past experience, having a U.V. sterilizer on top of a sufficient skimmer, biological filtration along with mechanical filtration changed out periodically with light gravel vac and water changes is plenty for a just fish tank. The trick is staying consistent with the upkeep which should be pretty minimal as long as the system is set up correctly.

Albano, is ESV the abbreviation or the name brand? never heard of it. in the future, I just may pay the extra couple dollars for premixed saltwater in a jug from my local shop.
 
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I have mixed salt ten minutes before putting it in a tank and never had that problem. The tank has not cycled yet.
 
I've found all Chromis Damsels aren't as "tough" as all the others. For what it's worth, I circulate & oxygenate all my s/w for at least 24 hours AFTER I've confirmed it's reached the desired SG before doing a WC.
 
i think the whole “24 hrs“ thing is bologna......I use Salinity and its RECOMMEDED to use within a few hours of mixing for best results. Ive used other salts too and never waited 24 hrs, never an incident.
 
I'm pretty sure it all depends on the amount of water change in the volume of tank. This was a 50% water change in a 10 gallon hospital tank with the salt mixing with water temp warmed to right temp for atleast 20 minutes.

After seeing that damsel go from doing fine and comfortable in the hospital tank, to breathing heavily and going back on it's side and curling up and convulsing periodically after I replaced it's old water with the 50% new salt water exchange, I'm convinced that too much of a drastic new salt water exchange can really harm and do your fish in. although, I still have to test out ESV B-ionic brand, claiming to only need 10 minutes of mixing since the solution has already been pre-disolved, as they claim.
 
A fish should be qt'ed for 4 weeks prior to entry into the display tank.

I read all the stickies I could about quarantine tanks, which I never cared to try on my first aquarium several years ago. I would like to try it this time around. My only question about quarantining a fish is, won't the fish starve to death if it's not being fed for 4 weeks in quarantine? Since feeding and pooping will drastically increase the ammonia fast in a non-cycled tank!?

I'm aware that fish can usually go for 2 weeks without food, that's what I read in a marine fish book I have anyway. 4 weeks seems like a long time to keep a fish confined without food and other natural comforts. why an entire month and not 2 weeks, even though professional fish shops claim to have their fish quarantined for 2 weeks?

I also asked around at two of the more highly respected fish and coral shops in my area and they each have told me that they pretty much keep all of their fish in a partial copper solution in their systems to help keep the ich off the fish and close to eradicated. Now I know why the pro shops never keep their fish for sale in sandy bottom aquariums! No room or place for the ich to reproduce. Which is another reason to NEVER buy your fish at PETCO!
 
Who said anything about QT fish not being fed? I feed my QT fish twice a day. If your QT isnt cycled then just be ready for more frequent water changes. Fish should never be deprived food! QT is the perfect place to get your fish acclimated to the food you feed without competition, take advantage of that.
 
Who said anything about QT fish not being fed? I feed my QT fish twice a day. If your QT isnt cycled then just be ready for more frequent water changes. Fish should never be deprived food! QT is the perfect place to get your fish acclimated to the food you feed without competition, take advantage of that.

+1
Of course fish are fed in a QT. IMO, a QT is a vital piece of equipment and should be use with anything wet. At any given time; at least 75% (my guess) of the threads in the disease section of the RC forum could have been avoided with a good QT routine. I think not using a QT is one of the main reasons this hobby has such a high turnover rate too. Its too bad that so many hobbyists have to learn about using a QT the hard way (I did); but almost every long-term successful hobbyist I know uses one now.
 
Who said anything about QT fish not being fed? I feed my QT fish twice a day. If your QT isnt cycled then just be ready for more frequent water changes. Fish should never be deprived food! QT is the perfect place to get your fish acclimated to the food you feed without competition, take advantage of that.

I was under the impression that a quarantine tank doesn't have to or shouldn't be cycled, from what I read in some of the threads about iche treatment. There's not supposed to be any sand, decorative and what not. Is it ok to have a filter running on it then? If iche can't find substrate t sneak into and multiply, will they get into the filter and multiply then make their way out again? Unless the out take has a u.v. sterilizer connected to the out take to eliminate nd greatly minimize any continual outbreaks, right?
 
I was under the impression that a quarantine tank doesn't have to or shouldn't be cycled, from what I read in some of the threads about iche treatment. There's not supposed to be any sand, decorative and what not. Is it ok to have a filter running on it then? If iche can't find substrate t sneak into and multiply, will they get into the filter and multiply then make their way out again? Unless the out take has a u.v. sterilizer connected to the out take to eliminate nd greatly minimize any continual outbreaks, right?

Most people still run a HOB power filter or sponge filter, in addition to a powerhead or two for circulation. Bacteria live in the sponge filter and if the HOB p/f has a foam insert, bacteria live in that too. So while it might not be "cycled" per say, you still have biological filtration that has to be fed in the absence of fish.
 
Most people still run a HOB power filter or sponge filter, in addition to a powerhead or two for circulation. Bacteria live in the sponge filter and if the HOB p/f has a foam insert, bacteria live in that too. So while it might not be "cycled" per say, you still have biological filtration that has to be fed in the absence of fish.

I already knew all of that, my initial question still has not been answered. "Can ich find it's way into the filter and multiply there, as long as there's no substrate for it"?
 
I already knew all of that, my initial question still has not been answered. "Can ich find it's way into the filter and multiply there, as long as there's no substrate for it"?

Yes. I don't think ich cysts need substrate , or anything else, to live and release their theronts. Ich theronts (free-swimmers) are extremely small, able to pass through most filter media. I see no reason that an ich cyst can't release its new batch of free-swimmers by just free-floating in the water column. IMO, although everything imaginable has been tried, I still think killing the theronts is the only way to eliminate ich.
Also, if the sponge filter has been seeded, the tank is cycled. at least for ammonia/nitrite elimination. . No anaerobic bacteria for nitrate though----but in a QT who cares.
 
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