Ich 3 weeks into Hypo?

DrBoxedWine

DrBoxedWine

New member
I noticed an Ich Outbreak in the early-mid portion of December, and given my setup, i opted to do Hyposalinity in my 75g DT. I took out all the corals, shrimp, and snails and moved them to a QT tank in a back room. I have a refractomer that i'm calibrating with RO water (TDS meter reads 000), and a tunze ATO keeping the SG very stable.

On December 14, I got the salinity of my Display tank down to 1.008-1.009. The fish were doing better within a week, and all visible signs seemed to be gone by about the 2 week mark. Then, last night, at the 3-week and 1-day mark, i saw a few little dots on the Coral Beauty. He doesn't look awful, but what prompted me to look was i thought he was doing the sort of "listless" thing a sick fish does when the powerheads kinda blow them around more than normal. Monday (2 nights ago) i really got in on the sand bed, stirred the heck out of it (without the snails the sandbed is just getting dirtier than normal, too). All of the other fish appear to be OK, including my foxface who really took it bad the last time.

Is it possible to stir up an active parasite from the sandbed this far into it?

Is it possible for a bug to thrive and attach to fish this far into the hypo cycle? I would have guessed that even if it was a hypo resistant strain, there probably would be no signs when the salinity was this low for this long, and it would only visibly reemerge once the salinity was raised. I've read it can take up to 4 weeks to totally disappear, and i planned to take this to 8-weeks. So i don't mind waiting, i'm just worried something is wrong.

Thanks in advance for any help!
 
I just talked to the Mrs who's home today, and she said the Coral Beauty is scratching against the rocks, ugh.

i just i'm just wondering if this means my Hypo treatment for sure isn't working, and that i need to pick up a 55g on CL and start treating with Cupramine. Or if this is normal, and this could be the last of the Ich dying out.

Man, i'm seriously going to quarantine EVERYTHING going forward... If anyone wants to look at my tank, they'll have wash their eyes with vinegar and let them dry for 24 hours, lol.
 
I would use tank transfer. Hypo is difficult to execute properly and if SG goes above target, the clock restarts.
 
snorvich said:
I would use tank transfer. Hypo is difficult to execute properly and if SG goes above target, the clock restarts.
Click to expand...

Thanks Steve. I'm pretty certain SG didn't creep above 1.009, and definitely not above 1.010. My ATO is only about 5 months old, and i have no reason to think it doesn't work as it should. It monitors the level of like an 8 gallon portion of my sump, and adds about a half cup of water at a time. I gotta think my salinity is rock solid.

Would keeping the sand bed in the tank give the ich a place to hide? Do you think is just possibly the last of it dying out (This is what i'm hoping is happening, but i'm wondering if this is even a possibility).

Part of my concern with TTM, is that i have a Flamehawk, 2 small clowns, a firefish, a bicolor blenny, One Spot foxface, and a coral beauty at this point. I don't really have room, nor really the money for 2 55g setups to house all these fish as i switch them back and forth. Could i get by with 1 55g to keep them in long term while the DT runs fallow (and after i've completed the TTM) and then a 20g for the intermediate 3 day periods? I could load the tank with clay pots to provide lots of cover.
 
I'm reading around, it sounds like my 20g idea would really be a stretch.

I guess i'm back to hoping it disappears after this and we're clean for 4 weeks.
 
Bear in mind there are reports of some strains of Cryptocaryon being resistant to hyposalinity. You may have one of those strains. Agree with Steve on TTM...it's the most effective treatment for crypto. When I battled crypto last year, I had 7 fish similar to yours (two clowns, a royal gramma, firefish, flasher wrasse, blenny and foxface). I did two separate transfer groups in 20gal tanks, then kept them in a 40gal breeder once the transfers were complete. Since crypto doesn't kill quickly, I kept group 2 in the DT, ran group 1 through TTM, then did the same for group 2. Only loss was the foxface, which to this day I can't figure out why (he never had many spots, just got too stressed I guess).
 
Deinonych said:
Bear in mind there are reports of some strains of Cryptocaryon being resistant to hyposalinity. You may have one of those strains. Agree with Steve on TTM...it's the most effective treatment for crypto. When I battled crypto last year, I had 7 fish similar to yours (two clowns, a royal gramma, firefish, flasher wrasse, blenny and foxface). I did two separate transfer groups in 20gal tanks, then kept them in a 40gal breeder once the transfers were complete. Since crypto doesn't kill quickly, I kept group 2 in the DT, ran group 1 through TTM, then did the same for group 2. Only loss was the foxface, which to this day I can't figure out why (he never had many spots, just got too stressed I guess).
Click to expand...

+1 on foxface's death being stress related, used to work at LFS and i remember my first experience with a foxface was cleaning one of our 125 gallons that had foxface's that had just come in a few days ago in there, Huge ones too. soon as i put the algae scrubber in there one ofem shot to the other side of the tank then went back and forth about 10 times before swimming in a circle laying sideways and dying.

Was always careful to be really cautions and slow moving when cleaning tanks with them in there after that. i was skittish because id never seen or heard of a foxface but noticed those sharp spines, My hand shot outta the tank as soon as he freaked so i didnt get stung. But many if ida been a sec slower...Those guys can MOVE when Frightened.
 
Thanks everyone. I can't really find any conclusive evidence that it's impossible for it to reappear 3 weeks in. I'll probably give the sand bed a thorough stir this weekend, see if the spots disappear, and then go another 4 weeks after they're gone. However, using the 20 gallon tank, for half the fish at a time, is a really good idea. If it comes to using the TTM (which it very well may), i'll go that route.

Thanks everyone.
 
Deinonych said:
Bear in mind there are reports of some strains of Cryptocaryon being resistant to hyposalinity. You may have one of those strains. Agree with Steve on TTM...it's the most effective treatment for crypto. When I battled crypto last year, I had 7 fish similar to yours (two clowns, a royal gramma, firefish, flasher wrasse, blenny and foxface). I did two separate transfer groups in 20gal tanks, then kept them in a 40gal breeder once the transfers were complete. Since crypto doesn't kill quickly, I kept group 2 in the DT, ran group 1 through TTM, then did the same for group 2. Only loss was the foxface, which to this day I can't figure out why (he never had many spots, just got too stressed I guess).
Click to expand...

Yeah i've heard you can get resistant strains. What confuses me though, is that from what i've read about Ich, i would imagine that it would only reappear like this once the salinity returns to normal. From what i've read, even 1.017 is enough to suppress the parasite and give therapeutic effects. It's not going to go away permanently at 1.017, but i've heard it can at least get rid of the effects to the fish. So i'm really surprised that it's actually thriving like this at such a low level (1.0085).

It appeared within a day of me stirring the sand bed up. I'm really wondering if that had something to do with it. I'm going to really churn it all up this weekend, i wonder if maybe there were some pockets of higher salinity in the sand. I also haven't been changing the filter pads every day, which Sk8ter highly suggests. I cut up a weeks worth of filter pads last night and will be doing that regularly too.
 
DrBoxedWine said:
It looks like I may have overstated this, it doesn't say anywhere hear that it suppresses the parasite at 1.017, only that people with reefs where lowering it all the way below 1.010 isn't realistic, that often times people can use 1.017 as a compromise.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_4/V4I4/hyposalinity/OST.htm

But i found this to be quite helpful in understanding it all.
Click to expand...

IMO, there are several errors in that paper. However I am not going to critique errors in the work on another website.
 
DrBoxedWine said:
Thanks Steve. I'm pretty certain SG didn't creep above 1.009, and definitely not above 1.010. My ATO is only about 5 months old, and i have no reason to think it doesn't work as it should. It monitors the level of like an 8 gallon portion of my sump, and adds about a half cup of water at a time. I gotta think my salinity is rock solid.
Click to expand...

How do you measure your SG? How was it calibrated?
 
I have a refractometer, and i'm using RODI water (the tds meter reads 000) to calibrate since 1.000 is closer to my target than typical calibration fluid (which seems to be in the 1.026 range).
Taking some water in to my trusted LFS to have them check it has crossed my mind...
 
DrBoxedWine said:
I have a refractometer, and i'm using RODI water (the tds meter reads 000) to calibrate since 1.000 is closer to my target than typical calibration fluid (which seems to be in the 1.026 range).
Taking some water in to my trusted LFS to have them check it has crossed my mind...
Click to expand...

Take your refractometer and measure calibration fluid. What reading do you get? I am somewhat skeptical of using RO/DI water to calibrate a refractometer.
 
Thanks Steve. I can't find any calibration fluid locally, but I ordered some last night and it'll be here early next week. I also tested some store-bought distilled water and got the same 1.000 reading as my own.
 
snorvich said:
Take your refractometer and measure calibration fluid. What reading do you get? I am somewhat skeptical of using RO/DI water to calibrate a refractometer.
Click to expand...

I got the calibration fluid today, and when i use RODI water to zero it out and try the 35pt fluid, it reads 1.027.

Does this mean my 1.0085 salinity is really 1.0075? My understanding is that when you get further and further from the calibration point, the refractomer starts to drift further from accurate. This is why i was calibrating with RODI, since 1.000 is closer to 1.008.

I actually have a sick Coral beauty, and i'm wondering if being lower than 1.008 could be adding to his problems. I added just a little salt to the sump just now.

I realize i'm asking questions that people may not have perfect answers to, but i'd love to hear your thoughts.
 
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