Ich after hypo?

[marin8n]

Setting up a 300g FOWLR and trying to do everything right. Have had nano tanks for 10+ years and never had ich.

Reading, studying, for months. Added first fish - sharpnosed puffer and foxface into Hypo QT for 40 days @ 1.010 SG. Not once did either fish show ANY signs of disease, ate well, no flashing, etc.

Brought the SG back up to 1.021 to match the cycled display, moved them over and BOOM! Spots all over the puffer within 2 days. I don't see how this is possible. Can anyone confirm this is ich or could it be something else the hypo did not get? Micro bubbles? I don't see anything on the foxface, only the puffer.

This is incredibly discouraging if this is ich. I don't even know where to begin at this point as I thought I was doing everything right.

 

[snorvich]

Several things. Yes, it does appear to be ich. Hypo is the most difficult of the ich protocols since any time the SG goes above 1.009, the clock restarts. SG measurement requires a calibrated refractometer.

 

[marin8n]

ok, so I need a plan of action. Would hypo in conjunction with cupramine be more effective than just cupramine? I need to get these fish back into the QT and to clarify - 8 weeks fallow for the DT?

 

[lagatbezan]

No I wouldn't do copper and hypo together. Could be deadly.
Hypo is very hard to do because maintaining the salt level constant is really hard due to evaporation unless you are using a auto topoff unit.
I would look into the rank transfer method.

 

[marin8n]

caught the puffer and got him back into the QT, which is currently at 1.010 and still has the seeded bacteria on the HOB filter. Now...how to catch the foxface in a 300g with 340# of LR?? TT method is interesting, I would probably need to use the 5gal bucket approach as I have no space for another 20G QT. What about cupramine or CP?

 

[Reefahholic]

I did hypo perfectly and the ICH came back. I'm doing copper from now on. It's worked well for me in the past.

 

[snorvich]

And don't forget, your tank (OP) now has ich . . .

 

[marin8n]

Understood. So I was finally able to catch the foxface with a 2 liter fish trap, some spirulina flake, and my iphone. Both fish are back in QT at 1.010 and DT is empty.

Here's my plan:
4-6 weeks cupramine in QT followed by 4 weeks observation
10 weeks fallow DT

After all this, every new fish will go through 4-6 weeks cupramine as a prophylactic treatment.

Thoughts?

 

[snorvich]

Understood. So I was finally able to catch the foxface with a 2 liter fish trap, some spirulina flake, and my iphone. Both fish are back in QT at 1.010 and DT is empty.

Here's my plan:
4-6 weeks cupramine in QT followed by 4 weeks observation
10 weeks fallow DT

After all this, every new fish will go through 4-6 weeks cupramine as a prophylactic treatment.

Thoughts?

Sounds good. Be sure to raise your salinity in the current QT slowly.

 

[jduck]

Raise the salinity before dosing copper

 

[snorvich]

Raise the salinity before dosing copper

That is correct. Slowly.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I don't even consider hypo an option any longer; partially because of posts like this one. Some excellent hobbyists do, though. FWIW: Most folks that still use hypo suggest 1.009, or even 1.008 as the maximum SG. 1.010 may be too high. A refractometer that isn't perfectly calibrated can ruin the whole treatment plan, so can a little normal evaporation.

 

[marin8n]

I've never used a QT in 10 years+ of nano tanks and never had ich. Serves me right for trying to do it right in my 300 FOWLR I used 1.010 under the guise of a local (and published) expert but I'm coming to find he uses the hypo and copper together so the 1.010 is probably just bonus in addition to the copper. What amazes me is the tank ran without fish for 8 weeks, the QT ran for 6 and I never once saw a spot of ich and then BOOM, two days in the DT and the puffer is covered. This hobby sure tests your patience! Going to bump salinity in QT to match DT and start cupramine on tuesday. In the meantime I'm bleaching everything that has come near either tank. Last thing I want is my nano that's been running for 5 years to get infected. Thanks all for your advice!

 

[snorvich]

Ich does not require visible presentation in order to be present. It will often reside in the gills first before expanding its scope after multiple life cycles. Do not assume, by the way, that "published" truly means expertise unless it is a peer reviewed scientific publication.

 

[marin8n]

Yeah, lesson learned. Although I do believe he is legit. He wrote a book on fish diseases and has been in the field 30+ years, also runs a very successful local shop. Either way, I won't be taking chances going forward...this 10 week fallow period will be my penance for jumping the gun. If this tank is teaching me anything it's patience...bought it in June and still no fish

 

[Joe0813]

thats rough... my 180DT is empty two for another 11 weeks.... as you said it definitely tests your patience

 

[marin8n]

to be fair it's only had water in it since november but I started cycling dry rock back in september. On the bright side, it helped spreading out the expense and now I have a little time to build my WC station.

 

[marin8n]

Very interesting (and recent) discovery as to why the Foxface may not be infected (he's getting treated anyways). Interesting and encouraging in the search for a cure of this pesky disease!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20117218

 

[Deinonych]

My foxface had crypto when he was in QT (he was treated and cured of it), so don't get your hopes up about their being immune to it. Interesting study, though!

 

[marin8n]

Agreed. Maybe someday we will add a dropperful of meds derived from rabbitfish serum to fully cure a reef tank! Who knows but you gotta love progress. Hopefully in our lifetime it will eradicated. I can see where it would discourage a lot of hobbyists that eventually give up.