ich always the winner?

[lagatbezan]

okay i need to vent! :angryfire:
my 180g has been set up for over a year now. When i fist got it going i didnt qt any of my fish and ended up loosing all of them to ich/velvet. so lesson learned to qt everything.
I left the dt empty for 3 month and from then on every fish was placed in qt for 3 weeks and treated with cupramine. I obsessively kept up with water changes and the level of cupramine to make sure it was at the .5 level (tested with seachem test kit).
my last fish added to the tank was 2 weeks ago which was a powder blue tang which was also qt for 3 weeks with cupramine.
Well I come home last night, and the powder blue has a spot of ich on him!
its so discouraging and i'm just about to break everything down and get rid of the whole set up!
its so stressful going through the whole process and trouble of making sure that there are no parasites on them and still failure!
so now the dilema is wait and see what happens or attempt to pull all the fish out and qt...which would be extreemly hard to catch in the tank, let alone qt all 9 of them in small 30g tanks!
current fish: hippo tang, kole tang, 2 clowns, flame angel, 2 yellow tangs, foxface and the powder blue.

 

[SNAKEMANVET]

I know the feeling,I am going throught hypo now. They say to hypo for 4 weeks,but I am going 6 weeks to make sure.Any fish thats purchased from now will be qt for 10 weeks.I am thinking you should have went longer in qt.

 

[jhentr]

IME, ich is not the winner.

Back in the days during the beginning of this so call 'Internet', I've kept a yellow tang, a maroon clown, and a pajama cardinal in a 10 gallon tank without an outbreak of any diseases for 4 plus years.

When I upgraded to a 40 gallon and added some more fishes without QT, it wiped out the whole tank.

Than I continued to run into ICH and other diseases until I started a regiment of strict QT.

So just this last two years, I've been ICH/disease free no matter what water quality or stress level, etc that the fish might encounter (tank move, temperature swings from winter to summer, bad water parameters, etc).

I can say that if I introduce a new fish without QT, I'll probably increase the chance of disease again IMO disease free tank.

I know of your frustration. I went thru two years of it where I just gave up and kept the fishes that were 'immune' to ich. But after ich stop showing up for a year, I've added new fishes to the DT (after QT) without any more outbreaks.

Good luck.

 

[Beamers]

With PB's ich is going to be 85-90% stress related. I've been able to keep my tank ich free for years now just because everyone has a pecking order and their own territories in the tank.

Occupants: Powder Blue, Blonde Naso, Blue Hippo, flasher wrasse, firefish, pair of clowns, starry blenny.

Take a peek at your grazers and see how they act around him, might need to remove one of them if they're bossing the PB around, they're really sensitive :/

 

[MrTuskfish]

QT needs to be a lot longer than 3 weeks. Recent studies, posted by snorvich, show that ich cysts can lie in waiting for much longer. I've gone to 8 weeks total QT time for new fish, with 4 weeks of Cupramine in the middle.

 

[MrTuskfish]

With PB's ich is going to be 85-90% stress related. I've been able to keep my tank ich free for years now just because everyone has a pecking order and their own territories in the tank.

Occupants: Powder Blue, Blonde Naso, Blue Hippo, flasher wrasse, firefish, pair of clowns, starry blenny.

Take a peek at your grazers and see how they act around him, might need to remove one of them if they're bossing the PB around, they're really sensitive :/

PBTs are very susceptible to ich. But stress is only a factor if you have live ich in your tank. I have not seen any protozoan parasite in any of my tanks in 15+ years...so stress isn't a factor at all, regardless of what fish I choose to keep. I QT all the new fish for a good friend & helper (and new American Citizen:dance: ). He's had him in his DT about 3 weeks , clean as can be. This PBT will not get ich, no matter how "stressed" he gets....because there is no ich in the tank to get. This is due to a strict, no holds barred, attack on parasites in QT. This is nothing special, ich-free tanks are not rare or difficult.

 

[ziyaadb]

does one need to QT corals as well because i QT all my fish 4 weeks min and the ick on regal has shown up again

 

[lagatbezan]

Mrtuskfish, I know what you are saying and agree that fish dont get ich unless there is ich in the system. that was my goal! the thing is that the fish showed no sign of ich at all in qt the whole time they were in copper. and the directions for the cupramine said to medicate for 14 days and i extended it for another week which evidently was not enough!
Also i noticed that the tangs lost their appetite while they were in copper which is also one of the reasons i didnt keep them in there longer.
so, what to do now? take them all out or wait it out?

 

[ziyaadb]

oh yes left my display fishless for over 8 weeks as well

 

[MrTuskfish]

The way the info on ich is changing; I'm just not sure about anything. I think a little luck has helped me as well. The time a cyst can hold on before releasing the dangerous swimmers seem to be longer with every new bit of research. This post by snorvich (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2041951) suggests that at least 9 weeks may be needed to give a 99% chance of getting all the ich.
I know copper can stop many fish from eating, and there doesn't seem to be a rule on which ones. I've never had that problem with tangs. I take at least 3 days to get Cupramine up the the .50ppm suggested by SeaChem and hold at a lower (but still effective) level of copper if a fish stops eating. I do try to increase it slowly, as long as the fish is eating though. I'm going to "field-test" Quinine Sulfate, instead of Cupramine as soon as I can; and may switch. Some real "Big Hitters (Fenner, Goemans, et al) love the stuff.

 

[lagatbezan]

dam, with all the technology and resources out there these days you would think there would be a way to eradicate this little pest! I have to say, till now this hobby has become more of a headache then enjoyable lol!
when i had the yellow tangs in the qt, after i added copper, they lost their appetite and were not eating much at all. the PB was not eating much till one week into the treatment and then it was eating like a pig. to my surprise, I had no problem with the flame angel and cupramine.
For now i guess i'm gonna wait and see how he is doing. If i see its starting to get out of control, then I guess they are all back in the qt :headwally:. if that ends up the case, should i keep them in copper for the whole duration the main tank is fishless (8 weeks) or is that too long?
whats the deal with Quinine Sulfate? where do you get it from and what is the dosing instructions on it? any way of testing/monitoring it? i guess i just want to see if i should use that instead of the cupramine.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Search this site and Bob Fenner's site (wetwebmedia.com). You'll find lots of info on QS. When Fenner recommends something, I listen. I don't have problems with Cupramine, I love it. But I've used it for 15+ yrs and have learned what to watch out for and make adjustments on the fly. Although I still am unsure about some aspects of QS; I think I would use it today....if I hadn't been using cupramine for so long.

 

[MrTuskfish]

does one need to QT corals as well because i QT all my fish 4 weeks min and the ick on regal has shown up again

IMO, anything wet should be run thru QT. Ich cannot feed off corals, or other inverts, but various forms of ich can survive on the coral and hitch a ride into your DT. There are some sources for coral, especially frags , that have kept corals for at least 8 weeks in fishless water. they should be safe.

 

[ziyaadb]

thanks mrtuskfish

 

[dirtyBit]

What temp do you keep your fish in QT at. Hotter speeds up the Ich cycle right?

 

[snorvich]

What temp do you keep your fish in QT at. Hotter speeds up the Ich cycle right?

Warm temperature reduce desolved oxygen content. If your fish actually does have cryptocaryon irritans, it is almost certainly in the gills. Higher temperature actually makes it more difficult for your fish. My preference is temperature on the cooler side (75/76F).

 

[Dog boy Dave]

Ozone will eradicate Ich

Ozone will eradicate Ich

When I set up my main display I had an ich outbreak when i moved my fish. I addded an ozone generator to my skimmer and imediately saw the fish begin to improve. Within a couple of weeks, the spots were occational and you really had to search for them. After a year or so I saw no spots ever no matter how hard i looked. After two years i put the ozone back on the shelf. I had no fish losses. Ozone will eradicate Ich. Its easy and if dont properly safe. I would imagine UV applied properly would accomplish the same thing but I have never used it. Ich isnt even an issue anymore in my systems. In the past I have never been able to keep a powder blue or Kole Tang long term due to ich but the two i have now are over 5 years old.

 

[MrTuskfish]

When I set up my main display I had an ich outbreak when i moved my fish. I addded an ozone generator to my skimmer and imediately saw the fish begin to improve. Within a couple of weeks, the spots were occational and you really had to search for them. After a year or so I saw no spots ever no matter how hard i looked. After two years i put the ozone back on the shelf. I had no fish losses. Ozone will eradicate Ich. Its easy and if dont properly safe. I would imagine UV applied properly would accomplish the same thing but I have never used it. Ich isnt even an issue anymore in my systems. In the past I have never been able to keep a powder blue or Kole Tang long term due to ich but the two i have now are over 5 years old.

IMO, ozone & UV can be good tools. I really don't agree that either can eradicate ich, though. Most ozone units are connected to the skimmer (I think) so all free-swimming parasites would have to pass through the skimmer & ozone unit before they found a fish host. IMO; this isn't possible. UV cannot eliminate ich for the same reason. Also, the UV must be properly maintained and have proper flow to do anything. I actually think UV can often do more harm than good, by giving the hobbyist a false sense of security. I sound like a broken record, but a proper & rigid QT regimen will keep a tank ich-free from day 1. It just shouldn't be necessary to fight this battle in your DT. Like many of us, I learned this the hard way too.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Warm temperature reduce desolved oxygen content. If your fish actually does have cryptocaryon irritans, it is almost certainly in the gills. Higher temperature actually makes it more difficult for your fish. My preference is temperature on the cooler side (75/76F).

Yeah. the higher temp is a carry-over from treating FW ich (I assume). FW & SW ich are totally different critters.

 

[lagatbezan]

When I set up my main display I had an ich outbreak when i moved my fish. I addded an ozone generator to my skimmer and imediately saw the fish begin to improve. Within a couple of weeks, the spots were occational and you really had to search for them. After a year or so I saw no spots ever no matter how hard i looked. After two years i put the ozone back on the shelf. I had no fish losses. Ozone will eradicate Ich. Its easy and if dont properly safe. I would imagine UV applied properly would accomplish the same thing but I have never used it. Ich isnt even an issue anymore in my systems. In the past I have never been able to keep a powder blue or Kole Tang long term due to ich but the two i have now are over 5 years old.

When i got the first ich outbreak in my tank i went out and bought the biggest UV that i could find. I got a 55 Watt one and spend over $300 on it and set it up and it did absolutely nothing for the ich and I ended up losing all my livestock.
The problem with using the UV or Ozone is that you have to make sure that the parasite goes through it or gets processed by it so that it can be killed and getting ALL of parasites to go through it is just nearly impossible. but I still have it running in my system.
I think now the fight has gotten personal and now I'm even more determined to eradicate it from my system! so the plan for the following week is to try and catch all the fish and get them all QT again...ahhhhhhh