Ich develops while in QT/hypo?!?!?

[ostrow]

As some may know from another thread here, I had bad luck adding a couple tangs to my display. So after roasting from my local club Prez and RC frequenter I follow his advice exactly setting up a QT and treating new tangs in hypo. And ich develops TODAY. Here's an email I sent him but other advice would be most welcome.

Ok, so I have my 20gal set up as a QT. I cleaned, dried, and started that tank over (had been frag tank plumbed into the system), mixing at 1.017 and running for several days before adding fish. While at 1.017 I put in a 2.5" Kole and a 1.5" Hepatus on 10/27. I inspected both meticulously, and both were spot-free and chubby and ate immediately in the QT. I inspect both carefully daily. I have watched long and hard and they are not at all harrassing each other. They seem to be schooling together in fact.

By 10/31 had it at 1.009 and it has not wavered from that since. I change 2-4 gal daily, siphoning out poop and whatever on the bottom glass. Have a couple rocks in there for hiding that I removed from sump a week prior to putting the fish in.

I feed a variety of stuff, macroalgae, mysis shrimp, Rod Buehler's concoction (basically Eric Borneman's recipe I believe), spirulina.

So the fish have been in there 9 days at 1.009, 13 days altogether.

This morning, for the first time, I saw ich spots on both fish. After 9 days at 009. There are many spots on the Kole, a bit fewer on the Hepatus. Both still eating.

How can this happen? I thought crypt couldn't survive at .009? I have added nothing to the tank but newly mixed and aerated .009 water and nothing at all ever from the main tank, which is now fine to the eye.

More important, what would you do at this stage for these two fish????

I don't want to use copper as this tank was and is intended in future to again be a frag tank plumbed with the rest of my system.

 

[Angela Short]

I am thinking hypo only kills the free swimming stages of ick as the bug is in the "flesh" in a constant stable enviroment till it matures and falls off. The bug is probably just maturing and getting ready to fall off only to be killed with the hypo. Be absolutly sure it stays at 1.009 and not a dab above or they can survive!! If the temp is on the low side it takes longer for the ick to go through its stages also. Since you have them in hypo and they are getting along well, some recomend a longer than 4 week treatment, 6 weeks, to be sure. I have done 6 with no ill affects on fish. Hope this helps and I am glad you took a roasting with stride and didn't get "your wittle feelings hurt" like so many who chose not to do it the right way then whine when they have trouble!!

 

[ostrow]

First time I ever had problems adding a healthy fish to my display.

Anyway, I've had the fish for 14 days now. Today was the first sign of any spots on either. And they have been at 1.009 for 9 of those days.

Are you saying the parasites were hiding in the flesh of these fish and now are just appearing as white spots? This is not how I understand ich.

What I understand is that if the spots appeared today, they were free-swimming yesterday, day before. In 1.009. That is what is frustrating me.

I don't get it.

 

[Angela Short]

I may be wrong but I thought they were microscopic and attach to the fish where they then bury in the skin to go through another stage of development that ends up in a ripe cyst (white spot). Then drops off where it can be killed. I don't think they attach and imeadiatly look like a big white spot. It takes some development time.

 

[ostrow]

Yep I was wrong on that. But to so suddenly all appear at once... and after 9 days at 1.009. Man. I'm hoping that when they drop off now the hyposalinity will destroy them.

But now I have to start my QT clock all over again, right?

 

[Angela Short]

I do think you start counting from the last white spot, not just 4-6 weeks.......

 

[ostrow]

Got home. Fish completely, and I mean completely free of spots. Wow. I hope those suckers exploded like they are supposed to when they hit the low-s.g. water.

 

[Rondelet]

Hey Ostrow,

First are you using a swing arm type salinity meter or refractometer?
Second, even if you look closely at a fish it's unlikely you can see all the parasites that may be on the fish. I agree with Angela, that there may have been imbedded parasites that were developing before you noticed them as white spots. Nine days does seem long, but the hyposalinity may be affecting maturation of the parasite (i.e., slowing it down). Also, don't forget that this parasite can infect the gills where it's hidden from observation.

Good luck with it....

 

[TerryB]

What are you using the measure the Specific gravity? You should be talking about the salinity rather than the Specific Gravity of the water. Unless you are using a calibrated refractometer and going by the salinity (not SG) then your salinity may be too high to be effective. Don't be fooled by the spots disappearing for a few days.

Terry B

 

[ostrow]

Guys, refractometer of course.

 

[nikonosis]

how come there were no updates on this thread?

 

[ostrow]

Search other threads on my name on the subject.

 

[nikonosis]

well i read the other thread about the ich but i didn't see anything about the fish in quarantine.

 

[ostrow]

Oh. Well there was a long one in the CMAS forum. Anyway, I did the same thing -- Seachem recipe (as modified) mixed into Rod's Food.

The hypo alone, they were still showing signs every few days. Hypo (at .008) combined with the medicated food worked like a charm. More than once in fact.