ICH in 4 Days?

[wisnia99]

Hi,
I have my new jbj 28 gal tank setup 3 weeks ago with 35lb of fully cured
and matured LR 0 Amonia, 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate.
I added clown fish monday and yeterday i noticed whitespots, lots more this morning.

Its my first Fish!
Should I take it back to the LFS? it had to be sick before I got it, and wait 72 days?

I have couple of zoo frags in there as well.

Keep in mind I have no place for QT or Hospital tank at this point.

 

[Wistler]

I have read a ton on Ich the past few months and also attempted to "Live" with Ich in my 180 gallon tank. My results were that I suffered fish loses due to new additions due to fish getting infected. No amount of UV or waterchanges helped the situation.

My guess is your liverock had some Ich in it when you added it, or the clown may have had the parasite in its gills already and now is showing spots.

You may not like the answer, but in my opinion if you are this early in the game with one fish you only really have one choice. Set up a cheap 10 gallon QT tank with hang on back filter and treat the fish with Cupramine (or hypo) and leave the tank fallow for 6,7,8 weeks depending on your comfort level that there is no more ich in the substrate.

I know it sucks, but I have a 90 gal reef, 180 fowlr and three other QT tanks set up. IMHO you must QT all new fish and even after that I put them in a non-copper observation tank with live rock and calerpa growing to watch them for another week for signs of stress.

You should be able to get a ten gallon kit real cheap....

 

[wisnia99]

I have read a ton on Ich the past few months and also attempted to "Live" with Ich in my 180 gallon tank. My results were that I suffered fish loses due to new additions due to fish getting infected. No amount of UV or waterchanges helped the situation.

My guess is your liverock had some Ich in it when you added it, or the clown may have had the parasite in its gills already and now is showing spots.

You may not like the answer, but in my opinion if you are this early in the game with one fish you only really have one choice. Set up a cheap 10 gallon QT tank with hang on back filter and treat the fish with Cupramine (or hypo) and leave the tank fallow for 6,7,8 weeks depending on your comfort level that there is no more ich in the substrate.

I know it sucks, but I have a 90 gal reef, 180 fowlr and three other QT tanks set up. IMHO you must QT all new fish and even after that I put them in a non-copper observation tank with live rock and calerpa growing to watch them for another week for signs of stress.

You should be able to get a ten gallon kit real cheap....

Thanks,
But by setting up a new 10 gal wouldn't I have a Cycle after a week of fish in there?

 

[Baboo11]

The cycle happens with live rock, which you won't be using in QT. Use Pvc pipe in short lengths to provide the fish with hiding places. Use water from your DT, but you will need to watch& adjust partners carefully in the QT. I left my DT "fallow" without fish fire ten weeks to be certain the life cycle of the ich ran out completely. Pain in the butt, but definitely worth it!

 

[wisnia99]

The cycle happens with live rock, which you won't be using in QT. Use Pvc pipe in short lengths to provide the fish with hiding places. Use water from your DT, but you will need to watch& adjust partners carefully in the QT. I left my DT "fallow" without fish fire ten weeks to be certain the life cycle of the ich ran out completely. Pain in the butt, but definitely worth it!

Im talking about the cycle in the QT since its new there will be cycle, fish will be stressed by ammonia.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I'm glad you reconsidered the QT. long-term success in nearly impossible without one.Here's something I've posted a zillion times; it won't help today, but you'll always be ready for to instantly cycle a QT/HT anytime. Cycling the sponge in the DT takes a few weeks. You need to leave your DT fishless for 10 weeks or so , the clown introduced ich into your system. When that time is up, your filter will be ready.

"
In regards to Qt cycling; I've done this for years. Get a HOB filter; I really like Aqua-Clear, they have a big sponge and last forever. Don't use the carbon or ceramic noodles that come with the filter. Also, have some extra sponges on hand, they're cheap. Keep a sponge in the flow somewhere in your DT. When you need a QT or HT, just use the sponge that has been in your main system in your QT filter---the QT will be instantly cycled. When done, toss the sponge and keep a new one ready in your main system.
BTW, Cupramine copper, used in a QT,will not destroy a bio-filter."

 

[Wistler]

Mr. Tuskfish is spot on as usual. As far as a single clown in your 10 gallon, you should be able to go a few days before having to do a waterchange to reduce ammonia.

I have a 4" Orange Shoulder Tang in a 20 long and he is eating like a pig. After three days the ammonia gets up to .20ppm and I do a 6 gallon waterchange with new water.

Just remember to add appropriate drops of cupramine to get the dosage back up to .4-.5 PPM.

It really is true what they say that when you QT a fish it really helps it acclimate to you and your schedule. My tang now swims to the side of the tank when I raise the eggcrate to drop in his food. He is used to my lighting schedule, feeding and cleaning tasks after only a week.

I'm hoping that when I add him to the display he will take right to eating the same foods as always and not be so "wigged" out like e would have been if I dropped him into the display tank fresh off the airplane.

Good Luck:rollface:

 

[sandwi54]

Mr. Tuskfish is spot on as usual. As far as a single clown in your 10 gallon, you should be able to go a few days before having to do a waterchange to reduce ammonia.

I have a 4" Orange Shoulder Tang in a 20 long and he is eating like a pig. After three days the ammonia gets up to .20ppm and I do a 6 gallon waterchange with new water.

Wistler, actually if the 20 long QT has 0.2ppm of ammonia, you will need to do more than 6g change. Ammonia is very bad for fish, in any amount of presence, no matter how little. In your circumstance I would do 50% water change, twice in a row, to reduce the ammonia down to 0.05ppm. Changing 6 gallons will only reduce ammonia by 30%, which is not enough.

You will likely have to do this large water change twice daily for the first week or so, from my experience.

 

[Rakkah]

Found my answer to my quetsion, disregard.

 

[Wistler]

Thanks SANDWI for the advice and I will change some water later. I am aware that ANY ammonia is bad for the fish, but I also thought that changing too much water at once will be harmful. I have a small piece of filter mat in my HOB filter that I usually change every 5 days when it gets funky from food and detritus.

Do you recommend I place about 4-5 of those in my Reef tank sump and let the bacteria keep colonizing on them and use and discard as needed for the QT?

I was cursious how you stated I would only need to do such drastic water changes for the first week. With no LR why would the Bio filter ever get established enough to be productive?

Are you assuming I leave ANOTHER sponge in the tank 24/7 and do not ever remove that one?

Thanks

 

[sandwi54]

No problem. My assumption was that the filter mat was in your DT for quite a while already, so it should be seeded with enough bacteria. If that is not the case, then your QT is very much un-cycled, and cycling will take a few weeks, during which large water changes will have to be done. So that will take much longer than the one week I stated.

I would put all of the filter mat you have in the 180g reef into the QT sump. This way you won't be looking at such a large cycle issue. After QT, just discard them, unless you plan to get more fish.

It is perfectly ok to do large water changes, as long as they are done correctly. Large water changes are needed to reduce toxins by significant amounts. Basically you want to make sure the temp and salinity of the new water matche those of the old water, and slowly add the new water in. Whenever you do a large water change, I would take 30 minutes to fill all of the new water, at 5-minute intervals, kindda like how you acclimate a fish.

 

[Wistler]

Thanks..Maybe I came across like I was a little less informed, but I do follow most of the things you recommend. Up until a few days ago I was not aware that Cupramine was safe for your bio filter and that can make a huge difference in the success of the QT tank keeping nitrates/ammonia down.
As of ten minutes ago I have a whole filter mat cut into 6" wide strips sitting in my sump. How long do they need to sit in their before they are actually colonized with bacteria?

I do age my mixed salt water for 2 days prior to using it and run a powerhead and heater in the Brute trash can. I have a refractometer and make sure the new water matches the temp and PH of the existing QT water. I guess upon your recommendation when I drain my QT for a water change I will take a little longer to add the new water. I never thought of that!!!

By the way...I am a "pic" whore and although its off topic I always like to see others' reefs and show mine so people can put a tank with a face so to speak.... Here is our 90 reef...