Hello,
Sadly I will have to make my first post on this subforum but I guess it is all my fault. I have Ich.
My tank is 8 month old, 120g, lots of live rock, no corals yet, just few polyps (I am still working on my LED DIY lightning when I have some extra time). Since the first month I have a pair of clowns and a diamond watchman goby and they were doing and still doing fine. I've never quarantined, it is not that I did not want, just the desire of having a fish was huge and I didn't have a QT tank at that time. During the past months, I've suspected that I may have some sort of parasites as I've observed few times the clowns and goby scratching, however it was really seldom and there were no other sypthoms what-so-ever.
So a week ago I decided to get some new fish, Yellow, Kole and Hippo Tangs, Neon Goby and Green Mandarin. Again, I didn't QT, I felt I might be pushing my luck, but I thought that "IF" I have Ich in the tank and even if I QT the new fish for 8 weeks, there was still a big chance of getting ich again once they are put into the DT.
Tangs are ich magnets, i knew that. The first day after they were introduced to their new home the Hippo had 5 white spots... But I've thought, it is due to stress and once he settles down his immune system will fight it and he'll get better. Well after feeding with extra garlic soaked green and red nori, the tangs were doing great for some days. The spots disappeared the next day, they were eating great, no fast breathing, they were exploring their new home, just happy fish. Until couple of days ago when the blue tang had white spots again, then in the next 24 hours all tangs were breathing heavily, not eating and hiding. All other fish were ok. Today the tangs look better, do not breath so fast, eat well, still lots of white cysts though, on the neon goby as well. Nothing on the clowns or the diamond goby yet. Absolutely nothing on the Mandarin, I've heard Mandarins are immune to Ich. I guess my plain of good nutritious diet and improving fish immune system is just not working. Time for active treatment.
I have Cupramine and Sachem Copper tests. Recently I sold all my freshwater fish and now I have a spare 30g tank that I think (and hope) will be ok as treatment tank for: Yellow tang 2", Kole 2", Hippo 1.5", 2 Clowns 1", diamond goby, neon goby.
As for the Mandarin, I have a 15g tank for it, I plan on doing Hyposalinity for 8 weeks as I've read it will not handle copper well.
So I have "a plan", however there are few problems on the way. First setting up the hospital tanks... Shortly after I got the new fish I got a feeling that things could go bad and I put a sponge from an airstone filter in the sump and it has been there for 5 days now and I am not sure if that time is sufficient to populate enough nitrifying bacteria to cycle the 30g tank.
After the fish got sick i put one more sponge that has been in the tank for 2 days only, but I guess since mandarin is doing fine i can wait some time until I out him in his hospotal tank.
However the tangs seem to get more and more spots every day and I do not know how long they will handle it without any treatment and if I should just go ahead, clean the 30g tank, put water from the DT, put the 5 days sponge and an airstone, move the fish and start the treatment. I have Salifert Ammonia and Nitrite tests, but I do not have that emergency ammonia badge, they do not sell them here. I also have some Microbe-Lift Special Blend and I've heard people get fast cycle with it.
And these are my concerns / questions:
1.The Mandarin
When I got it a week ago it was bones and skin only. Since we do not have big marine fish stores here, they import stock on demand and you get what arrives. Anyhow, for the past week the Mandarin gained some weight, looks almost double now as I have tons of pods and he's well fed. However so far I haven't noticed him taking any prepared food being frozen or pellets... And shopping live pods here where I live will be impossible, or at least will take a while to find someone who will ship some abroad. So how should I feed him when he is in the hospital tank. I am thinking to try feeding him with frozen cyclops and/or bloodworms once he is in the hospital tank but don't know if he will accept any at all.
1.1. Treating the Mandarin.
Since my second sponge isn't good for cycling the Mandarin's hospital tank yet, ill let the fish be alone in the DT for one more week. People say they are immune to Ich, however that might be urban myth. The DT should be fishless for 8-10 weeks so Mandarin cannot stay there. The question is if to treat it at all in quarantine or not. With the hassle with treating, all the stress on fish and everything else I prefer to be on the safe side and use Hyposalinity on the Mandarin and to avoid future Ich outbreaks. Within 48 hours ill lower the salinity, put RO/DI water every day to handle evaporation and keep it this way for 8 weeks and hope it will start eating frozen/prepared foods and survive. No lights will be turned on for more than a minute while "trying to feed" so I can keep the ph stable.
2.The Diamond watchman goby.
He does not have any Ich signs, yet he will be copper treated with the others. Do gobies have any problems being treated with copper, neon goby included?
Another thing with the diamond goby is that he is sandshifter... and the hospital tank is bare bottom. I plan on putting different size of pvc tubing so he will have "a cave" but still there will be no sand. Will he be able to survive if no sand is present? He is eager eater and every time I'm feeding he is around the top of the tank waiting for food.
3.Copper treatment
3.1 I am a bit confused here. Quite ofthen I read about daily water changes while in QT. However during copper treatment you have to have exact concentration of copper in the water so I suppose wc should not be done. How then the hospital tank will be "safe" with 7 fish in 30g considering no water changes and/or no skimmer. Will the bacteria will be able to handle all the waste?
3.2 Another thing I will do as suggested here - treating 4 weeks with copper instead of 2 (as the instructions suggest). However I've read that the cyst form of Ich is not affected by copper and sometimes it takes up to 8-9 weeks for it to hatch. So even treating 4 weeks with copper I have no guarantee that all ich is killed. I do not have another tank to do tank transfer, what should I do then?
3.3 Cupramine's instructions say that you dose twice within 48 hours to reach 0.5mg/l and then do not dose unless it's needed and leave it for 14 days. Does that mean that If I do 4 weeks treatment I should't dose again at all, just make sure it has the same concentration all the time. How often should I test the water? Why should I test every night before the lights go off? And again - no water changes at all during treatement? What happens if there is ammonia spike and what exact level of ammonia should be a sign for urgent water change, how much water should be changed and if new prepared water is used I suppose corresponding dosage of cupramine should be applied to it, right? Is it possible at all for the cultivated nitrifying bacteria in the sponge filter to cycle the hospital tank during all treatment time?
3.4 How do you feed fish while being in the hospital tang. Should I give them very little, just enough for them not to starve ir order to prevent ammonia spikes?
3.5 How do you desinfect buckets, tubing etc that were in contact with the contaminated water from the DT, will fresh water dip/cleaning be enough or something stonger should be used? Bleech maybe? Is it possible a contaminated water drop to survive enough in a tubing for example so it could contaminate the fish after several weeks?
3.6. I also have PraziPro that I plan on using on fish
3.6.1 Can I use PraziPro together with Cupramine or it is better to wait for the copper treatment to finish and then do two week PraziPro treatement?
3.6.2 Can I use PraziPro in the tank with Mandarin that is under Hyposalinity?
4. Some general questions
4.1 Would the sponge filter being 5 days into the sump be enough to cycle a 30g tank with 7 fish? If not and if I should wait some more time, how fast Ich kills, how much time my fish have? Should I try and use Special Blend considering copper and hyposalinity will be used?
4.2. Considering 4 weeks of copper treatment will be performed and people say that cysts are not affected from copper and some of them may hatch after 7-9 weeks, does that mean that all the copper treatement could be in vain without a tank transfer?
4.3 How often copper, ammonia, nitrites should be tested, once a day, twice?
4.4 How often the PH in the hyposalinity tank should be tested, will the feeding make the ph even more unstable. Should it last 8 weeks if Mandarin only is treated?
4.5 If everything goes well (and im sure it will), from now on I will quarantine every fish for 8-10 weeks. What about snails, corals - is it possible that a sleeping bomb - an ich cyst is somewhere on them? How should they be quarantined then, for 8-10 weeks? What about frozen food, can it introduce a parasite, even if it has been frozen before?
I hope you guys have the patience to read all that and the time to help with an advice. Any other suggestions outside the asked questions are more than welcome as I really want to save my fish.
And please, excuse my English as it is not my native language and there are probably quite a few mistakes, but unfortunately I do not have a spell check here :hammer:
Thanks in advance!
Sadly I will have to make my first post on this subforum but I guess it is all my fault. I have Ich.
My tank is 8 month old, 120g, lots of live rock, no corals yet, just few polyps (I am still working on my LED DIY lightning when I have some extra time). Since the first month I have a pair of clowns and a diamond watchman goby and they were doing and still doing fine. I've never quarantined, it is not that I did not want, just the desire of having a fish was huge and I didn't have a QT tank at that time. During the past months, I've suspected that I may have some sort of parasites as I've observed few times the clowns and goby scratching, however it was really seldom and there were no other sypthoms what-so-ever.
So a week ago I decided to get some new fish, Yellow, Kole and Hippo Tangs, Neon Goby and Green Mandarin. Again, I didn't QT, I felt I might be pushing my luck, but I thought that "IF" I have Ich in the tank and even if I QT the new fish for 8 weeks, there was still a big chance of getting ich again once they are put into the DT.
Tangs are ich magnets, i knew that. The first day after they were introduced to their new home the Hippo had 5 white spots... But I've thought, it is due to stress and once he settles down his immune system will fight it and he'll get better. Well after feeding with extra garlic soaked green and red nori, the tangs were doing great for some days. The spots disappeared the next day, they were eating great, no fast breathing, they were exploring their new home, just happy fish. Until couple of days ago when the blue tang had white spots again, then in the next 24 hours all tangs were breathing heavily, not eating and hiding. All other fish were ok. Today the tangs look better, do not breath so fast, eat well, still lots of white cysts though, on the neon goby as well. Nothing on the clowns or the diamond goby yet. Absolutely nothing on the Mandarin, I've heard Mandarins are immune to Ich. I guess my plain of good nutritious diet and improving fish immune system is just not working. Time for active treatment.
I have Cupramine and Sachem Copper tests. Recently I sold all my freshwater fish and now I have a spare 30g tank that I think (and hope) will be ok as treatment tank for: Yellow tang 2", Kole 2", Hippo 1.5", 2 Clowns 1", diamond goby, neon goby.
As for the Mandarin, I have a 15g tank for it, I plan on doing Hyposalinity for 8 weeks as I've read it will not handle copper well.
So I have "a plan", however there are few problems on the way. First setting up the hospital tanks... Shortly after I got the new fish I got a feeling that things could go bad and I put a sponge from an airstone filter in the sump and it has been there for 5 days now and I am not sure if that time is sufficient to populate enough nitrifying bacteria to cycle the 30g tank.
After the fish got sick i put one more sponge that has been in the tank for 2 days only, but I guess since mandarin is doing fine i can wait some time until I out him in his hospotal tank.
However the tangs seem to get more and more spots every day and I do not know how long they will handle it without any treatment and if I should just go ahead, clean the 30g tank, put water from the DT, put the 5 days sponge and an airstone, move the fish and start the treatment. I have Salifert Ammonia and Nitrite tests, but I do not have that emergency ammonia badge, they do not sell them here. I also have some Microbe-Lift Special Blend and I've heard people get fast cycle with it.
And these are my concerns / questions:
1.The Mandarin
When I got it a week ago it was bones and skin only. Since we do not have big marine fish stores here, they import stock on demand and you get what arrives. Anyhow, for the past week the Mandarin gained some weight, looks almost double now as I have tons of pods and he's well fed. However so far I haven't noticed him taking any prepared food being frozen or pellets... And shopping live pods here where I live will be impossible, or at least will take a while to find someone who will ship some abroad. So how should I feed him when he is in the hospital tank. I am thinking to try feeding him with frozen cyclops and/or bloodworms once he is in the hospital tank but don't know if he will accept any at all.
1.1. Treating the Mandarin.
Since my second sponge isn't good for cycling the Mandarin's hospital tank yet, ill let the fish be alone in the DT for one more week. People say they are immune to Ich, however that might be urban myth. The DT should be fishless for 8-10 weeks so Mandarin cannot stay there. The question is if to treat it at all in quarantine or not. With the hassle with treating, all the stress on fish and everything else I prefer to be on the safe side and use Hyposalinity on the Mandarin and to avoid future Ich outbreaks. Within 48 hours ill lower the salinity, put RO/DI water every day to handle evaporation and keep it this way for 8 weeks and hope it will start eating frozen/prepared foods and survive. No lights will be turned on for more than a minute while "trying to feed" so I can keep the ph stable.
2.The Diamond watchman goby.
He does not have any Ich signs, yet he will be copper treated with the others. Do gobies have any problems being treated with copper, neon goby included?
Another thing with the diamond goby is that he is sandshifter... and the hospital tank is bare bottom. I plan on putting different size of pvc tubing so he will have "a cave" but still there will be no sand. Will he be able to survive if no sand is present? He is eager eater and every time I'm feeding he is around the top of the tank waiting for food.
3.Copper treatment
3.1 I am a bit confused here. Quite ofthen I read about daily water changes while in QT. However during copper treatment you have to have exact concentration of copper in the water so I suppose wc should not be done. How then the hospital tank will be "safe" with 7 fish in 30g considering no water changes and/or no skimmer. Will the bacteria will be able to handle all the waste?
3.2 Another thing I will do as suggested here - treating 4 weeks with copper instead of 2 (as the instructions suggest). However I've read that the cyst form of Ich is not affected by copper and sometimes it takes up to 8-9 weeks for it to hatch. So even treating 4 weeks with copper I have no guarantee that all ich is killed. I do not have another tank to do tank transfer, what should I do then?
3.3 Cupramine's instructions say that you dose twice within 48 hours to reach 0.5mg/l and then do not dose unless it's needed and leave it for 14 days. Does that mean that If I do 4 weeks treatment I should't dose again at all, just make sure it has the same concentration all the time. How often should I test the water? Why should I test every night before the lights go off? And again - no water changes at all during treatement? What happens if there is ammonia spike and what exact level of ammonia should be a sign for urgent water change, how much water should be changed and if new prepared water is used I suppose corresponding dosage of cupramine should be applied to it, right? Is it possible at all for the cultivated nitrifying bacteria in the sponge filter to cycle the hospital tank during all treatment time?
3.4 How do you feed fish while being in the hospital tang. Should I give them very little, just enough for them not to starve ir order to prevent ammonia spikes?
3.5 How do you desinfect buckets, tubing etc that were in contact with the contaminated water from the DT, will fresh water dip/cleaning be enough or something stonger should be used? Bleech maybe? Is it possible a contaminated water drop to survive enough in a tubing for example so it could contaminate the fish after several weeks?
3.6. I also have PraziPro that I plan on using on fish
3.6.1 Can I use PraziPro together with Cupramine or it is better to wait for the copper treatment to finish and then do two week PraziPro treatement?
3.6.2 Can I use PraziPro in the tank with Mandarin that is under Hyposalinity?
4. Some general questions
4.1 Would the sponge filter being 5 days into the sump be enough to cycle a 30g tank with 7 fish? If not and if I should wait some more time, how fast Ich kills, how much time my fish have? Should I try and use Special Blend considering copper and hyposalinity will be used?
4.2. Considering 4 weeks of copper treatment will be performed and people say that cysts are not affected from copper and some of them may hatch after 7-9 weeks, does that mean that all the copper treatement could be in vain without a tank transfer?
4.3 How often copper, ammonia, nitrites should be tested, once a day, twice?
4.4 How often the PH in the hyposalinity tank should be tested, will the feeding make the ph even more unstable. Should it last 8 weeks if Mandarin only is treated?
4.5 If everything goes well (and im sure it will), from now on I will quarantine every fish for 8-10 weeks. What about snails, corals - is it possible that a sleeping bomb - an ich cyst is somewhere on them? How should they be quarantined then, for 8-10 weeks? What about frozen food, can it introduce a parasite, even if it has been frozen before?
I hope you guys have the patience to read all that and the time to help with an advice. Any other suggestions outside the asked questions are more than welcome as I really want to save my fish.
And please, excuse my English as it is not my native language and there are probably quite a few mistakes, but unfortunately I do not have a spell check here :hammer:
Thanks in advance!
