ich went away on its own?

Moonstream

New member
I'd been planning to pull my coral beauty, hawkfish, and sixline for awhile, and a few days before I planned to I noticed some spots on the angel and my two clowns. no other symptoms- no heavy breathing, no loss of appetite, no flashing. I decided that I would just pull everyone, since I had to take the tank apart anyways, so I pulled them all and put everyone in a 29g QT.

that was tuesday. today, I cannot for the life of me find any cysts on anyone. no one is breathing heavily, no one is scratching. everyone is eating very well, following me around the QT tank begging for food.

I was planning to start hypo this weekend, but Im hesitant to do so if I cant find any symptoms... should I treat? or should I move the fish I'll be keeping back into their tank?
 
also, as an aside, they are fed a somewhat varied diet of food, soaked at leats once a week (everyday since the outbreak) in garlic and selcon...
 
I'd be willing to bet that you're just seeing one phase of the parasite's life cycle. The fish will look perfectly clear for awhile, then the spots will reappear. They may develop a resistance, but it can also reappear when they're stressed. I would still take the opportunity to treat them.
 
The life cycle of this parasite is interesting and is important to understand when evaluating a treatment. The stage where the parasite is attached to a fish is called a trophont. The trophont will spend three to seven days (depending on temperature) feeding on the fish and that is what you see symptomatically when you see "salt sprinkled on the fish". After that, the trophont leaves the fish and becomes what is called a protomont. This protomont travels to the substrate and begins to crawl around for usually two to eight hours, but it could go for as long as eighteen hours after it leaves it's fish host. Once the protomont attaches to a surface, it begins to encyst and is now called a tomont. Division inside the cyst into hundreds of daughter parasites, called tomites, begins shortly thereafter. This noninfectious stage can last anywhere from three to twenty-eight days. During this extended period, the parasite cyst is lying in wait for a host. After this period, the tomites hatch and begin swimming around, looking for a fish host. At this point, they are called theronts, and they must find a host within twenty-four hours or die. They prefer to seek out the skin and gill tissue, then transform into trophonts, and begin the process all over again. What this means is that when your tank is infected, you can actually see symptoms during a very small part of the life cycle, and it why your tank is infected even though your fish are resistant. It will also explain why symptoms come and go.

Many hobbyists are fooled into believing they have cured their fish of the parasites, only to find Ich present again on fish a few weeks later; a reason why following through with a full treatment protocol is so important. Don't make this mistake and be lulled into a false sense of security. The parasites may be in a stage where they are merely regrouping and multiplying for their "next offensive." In the wild, this sort of massive reproductive phase ensures that a few will find a suitable host to continue on the cycle. In the close confines of our aquariums, though, it means comparatively massive infection rates.

This disease is usually associated with several environmental triggers. Changes in water temperature, exposure to high levels of ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate, low pH levels, low dissolved oxygen often associated with overcrowding, are all factors contributing to the onset of the disease. You could lump all of these in a general category of "stress", but it is more appropriate to think of all of these as "unnatural conditions". In fact, Cryptocaryon irritans is rare in the wild even more unlikely to be lethal. Ich is truly a disease that exploits the conditions of captivity to reproduce and easily find suitable hosts.

By the way, trophonts are under the skin so cleaner wrasses and cleaner shrimp have no real effect on reducing this parasite.
 
I've also had a similar thing. Fish can get over ich by themselves as long as they are eating and it's not too serious. I've had a light case of ich and in a few days I couldn't notice anything.
 
I've also had a similar thing. Fish can get over ich by themselves as long as they are eating and it's not too serious. I've had a light case of ich and in a few days I couldn't notice anything.

Good luck with that approach. Did you read my post above?
 
Yes I read it, I'm just saying in the past I have had a fish with a few specs and they were fine with no treatment. Nothing against your post.
 
I've also had a similar thing. Fish can get over ich by themselves as long as they are eating and it's not too serious. I've had a light case of ich and in a few days I couldn't notice anything.

I have heard more people than I can count say this, but ich will be back unless you treat fish and let tank go fallow. Follow Steve's advice for long term success.
 
Yes I read it, I'm just saying in the past I have had a fish with a few specs and they were fine with no treatment. Nothing against your post.

Then it wasn't true marine ich. I'm convinced that a lot of suspected ich is really something else. Bits of substrate, small wounds, other parasites, whatever. I have never read anything by any recognized authority that agrees that ich just disappears. It can't and it doesn't.

Steve's post above is exactly. Here's a piece by Bob Fenner, should be required reading: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm
I very, very seldom say that someone is wrong on this forum. A forum is a place for experiences and opinions. However, if someone thinks that true marine ich just disappears; they are just plain wrong. I could by my own Gulfstream Jet with the money lost on fish that could have been saved; were it not for the delay caused by misinformation.
 
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Steve's post is right on, true, true, true!!! If you think it was Ich treat. I suppose you could wait it out and see if they get it again, the problem with this is that the second go around will likely be more serious as there will be many more theronts cruising the tank looking for a host (your fish). BTW, That is a great read.
 
Let me post this question with regards to treatment: I have a PBT that was fully quarantined for 6 weeks with Prazipro/Ciprofloxicine and copper treatment before entering my DT- that was 3 years ago. Since that time, he has developed a few "ick-like" spots about once per year that cleared spontaneously in 24-48 hrs. Now, he has developed a full-blown infection corresponding to some unidentified stressor that has affected all of my soft corals. No new fish have entered the tank in 3 years, and the PBT is the only fish visibly infected. Do I remove the PBT and treat for six weeks? Do I remove all the fish and treat and leave the tank fallow for two life-cycles of ick? I am sure that the last option is the correct choice, but how many of us have quarantine facilities for a full display tank of fish?

Steve, how would you address this?

Thanks,
Scott
 
Not an answer to SSavader's question, I know. But, forms of the ich parasite can also be introduced on coral, inverts, etc. The coral tanks at many LFS are on the same filtration/circulation system as the fish tanks.
 
Let me post this question with regards to treatment: I have a PBT that was fully quarantined for 6 weeks with Prazipro/Ciprofloxicine and copper treatment before entering my DT- that was 3 years ago. Since that time, he has developed a few "ick-like" spots about once per year that cleared spontaneously in 24-48 hrs. Now, he has developed a full-blown infection corresponding to some unidentified stressor that has affected all of my soft corals. No new fish have entered the tank in 3 years, and the PBT is the only fish visibly infected. Do I remove the PBT and treat for six weeks? Do I remove all the fish and treat and leave the tank fallow for two life-cycles of ick? I am sure that the last option is the correct choice, but how many of us have quarantine facilities for a full display tank of fish?

Steve, how would you address this?

Thanks,
Scott
I had the identical experience awhile back. I think fish can develop resistance to ich, so you don't know it's in your system. Then when something adverse happens (new fish, heater failure, change in salinity when a top-off fails, etc.) it comes on fast and furious, devastating your entire tank. I lost several of my favorite fish this way.

As for not having quarantine facilities, you've just got to do what you can. I had several 20 gallon tanks set up in the kitchen at one point. Not ideal, but it's what I had on hand. Look for used cheap cosmetically challenged 40-55 gallon tanks on craigslist and keep them around. Keep sponges in your refugium that can be pulled out and put in a HOB filter as needed. It's really just a matter of planning ahead.
 
Robin, I think you are right. We know what the right thing to do is, I just have to get out all those unused tanks out and set up for QT.
 
I had the identical experience awhile back. I think fish can develop resistance to ich, so you don't know it's in your system. Then when something adverse happens (new fish, heater failure, change in salinity when a top-off fails, etc.) it comes on fast and furious, devastating your entire tank. I lost several of my favorite fish this way.

As for not having quarantine facilities, you've just got to do what you can. I had several 20 gallon tanks set up in the kitchen at one point. Not ideal, but it's what I had on hand. Look for used cheap cosmetically challenged 40-55 gallon tanks on craigslist and keep them around. Keep sponges in your refugium that can be pulled out and put in a HOB filter as needed. It's really just a matter of planning ahead.

Although I don't add fish frequently (actually rarely) I always have a QT system up and running and prepared. Robin's advice is good.
 
I always have my QT up and running as well -it a 25 gallon tank. Good for one or maybe two fish, but not the entire cadre of fish from the DT.
 
I always have my QT up and running as well -it a 25 gallon tank. Good for one or maybe two fish, but not the entire cadre of fish from the DT.

I sound like a broken record. But, if the QT is used on everything from day one; you should never have to use it for the whole cadre. (Great word! Not used often enough.)
 
I agree with MrTuskfish. Since we are "discussing", there is a second part of my post (which won't fit) that I usually add.

Treatments which work and Myths and Truths about Marine Ich
Treatments which work:

1. Hyposalinity - Using a refractometer, hold salinity at 11ppt to 12ppt until 4 weeks after the last spot was seen. (Best to use salinity, but if you use specific gravity, that equates to roughly 1.008 to 1.009 sp. gr. units). Raise salinity slowly and observe fish for 4 more weeks. It is difficult to control pH and water quality during treatment, however this is the least stressful treatment for the fish.

2. Copper treatment - Follow medication recommendations. This can be effective in 2 to 4 weeks of treatment. After treatment, remove all copper and observe fish for 4 more weeks. Copper is a poison to the fish and creates some stress.

3.. Transfer method – The fish is moved from tank to tank to separate the fish from the cysts that fall off and the free-swimming stages of the parasite. Two hospital tanks are needed to perform this treatment. The fish is stressed by having to keep moving it between these hospital tanks.

4. These are the ONLY 3 known cures that work almost 100% of the time. Other chemicals will kill the Cryptocaryon irritans parasite, but only in special conditions that are not good for the fish. Some chemicals will only kill some of the organisms, letting the others escape death to go on to multiply and infect.

Observations, Claims, and Common Myths:

1. Some Tangs seem more susceptible. This is true. Their mucous coatings are reduced in thickness and composition.

2. Cryptocaryon irritans goes away on its own. This is definitely NOT true. While Cryptocaryon irritans is only visible at one stage of its life cycle if it was once seen, then it hasn't gone away -- it's just not visible to the aquarist. Reread the life cycle described above.

3. It goes away with a ‘reef-safe’ remedy. This is not true; we all wish it was. This is one of the biggest and most 'dangerous' of the misrepresentations in the hobby. The aquarist thinks everything is okay when it isn't. What usually has happened is that the parasite has killed the fish it is able to kill and the rest have developed a resistance or immunity. The parasite is still in the aquarium, possibly infecting the gills of the fish where it can’t be seen. About 40% of fish seem able to develop this immunity.

4. It was gone then when a new fish is added, it is there again. This is not true. See 3 above. Cryptocaryon irritans wasn’t really gone or the new fish brought in the disease with it. A new addition to an aquarium can be the stress which triggers the other fish to reduce their defense or immunity, this will allow the parasite to 'bloom' to the point where the infection is now again visible to the aquarist.

5. The fish lived through the last outbreak then died during the second or subsequent outbreak. This can be true. The fish had a resistance or immunity that it lost.

6. It was accurately diagnosed as Cryptocaryon irritans, then never showed up again. It wasn’t ich or the fish quickly developed an immediate immunity or resistance, or the fish is still infected in the gills.

7. Cryptocaryon irritans can ‘hang around’ almost unnoticed with just a body spot now and then because it often resides just in the gills. This is true.

8. Aquariums always have Cryptocaryon irritans. This is untrue. Cryptocaryon irritans can be kept out of an aquarium. Just quarantine all fish, rock, sand, sponges, and filter medium and don’t let non-quarantined livestock get into the aquarium.

9. Fish always have Cryptocaryon irritans. Untrue. In the wild fish often show up to a 30% infection rate (or more) but the wild fish survive minor infections. In the tank the parasite can 'bloom' since In the tank the fish can't get away. The combination of bloom and no escape will overcome the fish. In capture and transportation the fish can share the disease and thus many wild caught marine aquarium fishes do have this parasite, but not all.

10. A fish can't be made to be totally rid of Cryptocaryon irritans. Untrue. All marine fish can be cured and rid of any Cryptocaryon irritans infection.

11. Just feed the fish well and/or feed it garlic and it will be okay. Not true. Nutrition, foods, vitamins, etc. don't cure an infected fish. An infected fish is sick and is being tortured by the itching and discomfort. It might pull through and acquire resistance or immunity (see above) but the fish is being stressed by having to contend with a parasite. Don't let this happen to the fish. Cure it!!

12. A new cure has been discovered. Very unlikely. If the aquarist thinks they have found a new cure, then have it researched and independently tested. It's easy and cheap. If it is as good as the above 3 tried and true methods then the professional veterinarians, private and public aquariums, fish farms, and I will use it. The aquarist needs to keep the perspective of how devastating this parasite is not to just the hobby but to the whole fish farming industry. Any new way of 100% treatment will make headlines!

13. If the Cryptocaryon irritans can't always be detected, then why bother with a quarantine procedure? In the confines of a small quarantine and being there for no less than 6 weeks, the Cryptocaryon irritans parasite will make itself known because the fish is weakened and the fish can't get away from being re-infected by multiplying Cryptocaryon irritans parasites. In other words, the quarantine procedure instigates a 'bloom' of the parasite which will make it visible to the aquarist. When this happens, treatment is appropriate with one of the three proven treatments.

14. All white nodules fall off the fish and move on to the cyst stage. Untrue. It has been discovered that, on very rare occasions (we don't know why) the white nodule will encyst and rupture while still on the fish.

15. UV and/or Ozone kills Cryptocaryon irritans. Ozone doesn't kill all parasites that pass through the unit, nor does the water treated with ozone kill the parasites. UV only kills the parasites that pass through the unit. Since the entire water volume does not pass through the unit, not all ich parasites will pass through the unit, so the UV will not rid an aquarium of Cryptocaryon irritans. A UV can help prevent a 'bloom' of the parasites however, and thus help in its control. UV is not a cure nor a preventative measure for Cryptocaryon irritans. When water is shared by multiple tanks, usage of UV can make spreading this parasite from tank to tank significantly less likely.

16. All spots are Cryptocaryon irritans. Untrue. Probably one of the most problematic causes for rumors and “myth-information” in the hobby is assuming that a spot is Cryptocaryon irritans when it may be another parasites or conditions (e.g., pimple-like reaction to infection) that look like Cryptocaryon irritans. The mis-diagnosis is often the cause for claims of what cured Cryptocaryon irritans, when the fish didn't have Cryptocaryon irritans to start with.

17. My LFS quarantines their fishes for 2 weeks and I only buy them to be sure they are healthy and free of Cryptocaryon irritans. Have you been reading the above? First, 2 weeks is not long enough. Secondly most LFS share water among their fish system tanks so if any new arrivals happened, the clock is effectively reset back to zero.
The truth is out there. . .Trust no one except yourself.
 
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