Ich

[convictblennie]

So I'm doing research on Ich... It's all something that I think we either had to deal with or will deal with at some point. I'm reading up on it and I have a few questions.

There are some people that say that all the fish have Ich and it appears when they are stressed. Some say that it is contagious and if you introduce a fish to your system that has Ich them the rest will get it.

The popular solution is to put the fish in a med tank, copper them, and let your tank fallow for about 9 weeks. Even after this some people say that the Ich comes back.

Now we all know that some fish get Ich at our local pet stores, I've seen it, they can't help it, it happens. They may or may not treat but they don't leave their tanks fallow for 9 weeks. I've seen fish with Ich at my local pet store in the coral beds, now they did not wait 9 weeks with no fish before selling the corals. So technically Ich is in every tank at our LFS and all of our fish and corals would be exposed before we get it. But not all of our fish get Ich...

Do we just not know enough about Ich?? I'm not sure if the LFS will chime in here at what they think...

 

[Mrscribbled]

Everything you need to know about ich can be found in the stickies at the top of this thread. Ich has a proven life cycle. When keeping an ich free system all fish, coral, inverts, macro algae, anything else wet, must be quarantined. Typically 9 weeks will suffice, but 12 is better.

 

[convictblennie]

But some people say that it still comes back after that... are they not being honest about their efforts? Should we not buy corals from the lfs because there is most certainly ich on there with all of the new fish that go in those tanks or systems... My LFS anyways don't keep the coral beds separate from fish...

 

[convictblennie]

To keep going with this... so if every lfs has had at least one fish in their coral beds or system with ich and they never left the tank fallow for 9 weeks without introducing anything else then these corals in that bed will have ich and if we buy the coral from them or anything else that comes from the, live rock etc, we will have ich in our system... so unless you treat your fish with copper and never put in one more thing in your tank you will have ich in there as soon as you buy a new coral or piece of live rock... is this a correct assumption??

 

[Deinonych]

There are some people that say that all the fish have Ich and it appears when they are stressed. Some say that it is contagious and if you introduce a fish to your system that has Ich them the rest will get it.

Not all fish have ich. If you do not quarantine and proactively treat, you are playing the odds. If you introduce a fish with ich into your DT, the other fish will get it. These are facts.

The popular solution is to put the fish in a med tank, copper them, and let your tank fallow for about 9 weeks. Even after this some people say that the Ich comes back.

If ich comes back, it's because it wasn't eradicated in the DT, or the fish was not treated properly in the HT/QT.

Now we all know that some fish get Ich at our local pet stores, I've seen it, they can't help it, it happens. They may or may not treat but they don't leave their tanks fallow for 9 weeks. I've seen fish with Ich at my local pet store in the coral beds, now they did not wait 9 weeks with no fish before selling the corals. So technically Ich is in every tank at our LFS and all of our fish and corals would be exposed before we get it. But not all of our fish get Ich...

Do we just not know enough about Ich?? I'm not sure if the LFS will chime in here at what they think...

The cryptocaryon life cycle is well known. Per Mrscribbled's suggestion, reading the stickies at the top of this forum should give you all the information you need.

Personally, I quarantine everything that goes into my DT...and I mean everything, even inverts. I've been burned by crypto cysts sneaking in on a coral skeleton, and I never want to go through another fallow period again.

 

[convictblennie]

I found my answer here, post #12
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2301468&highlight=dipping+coral+get+rid+of+ich
So unless we are as diligent as Deinonych we all have the ich... including all of our LFS have it.... it's everywhere including the water in the corals.... kinda depressing really

 

[Mrscribbled]

The reason it hits the hobby so hard is because of the closed systems. In the ocean the amount of water present is so great that crypto doesn't affect fish much. I'd say the chances of a coral carrying ich directly from the ocean is pretty slim. Once that same coral enters holding facilities is were things take hold. This is why the only one responsible in the end for quarantine is us, the consumer.

 

[MrTuskfish]

So I'm doing research on Ich... It's all something that I think we either had to deal with or will deal with at some point. I'm reading up on it and I have a few questions.

There are some people that say that all the fish have Ich and it appears when they are stressed. Some say that it is contagious and if you introduce a fish to your system that has Ich them the rest will get it.

The popular solution is to put the fish in a med tank, copper them, and let your tank fallow for about 9 weeks. Even after this some people say that the Ich comes back.

Now we all know that some fish get Ich at our local pet stores, I've seen it, they can't help it, it happens. They may or may not treat but they don't leave their tanks fallow for 9 weeks. I've seen fish with Ich at my local pet store in the coral beds, now they did not wait 9 weeks with no fish before selling the corals. So technically Ich is in every tank at our LFS and all of our fish and corals would be exposed before we get it. But not all of our fish get Ich...

Do we just not know enough about Ich?? I'm not sure if the LFS will chime in here at what they think...

We know a lot about ich. The problem is that so many folks know so many things that aren't true. (Stolen from someone).

 

[jimmyj7090]

There is no mystery at all.

-Chances are that any fish has been exposed at one point or another in the chain of custody before we get them. QT/treat all new fish and you shouldn't have a problem

-Chances are that all LFSs have at least some ick in their systems. QT/treat all new fish and you shouldn't have a problem

-Coral and or rock cannot host the ick lifecycle. At one stage in the life cycle cysts can settle on coral/rock, so. QT all new coral and you shouldn't have a problem

-Once a system full of rock and coral has been kept fallow for 9 plus weeks the ick will have died out since it cannot complete it's life cycle without fish.

-Fish can host low level infections without showing signs. This is why sometimes people think they have cured their infections only to have them re-appear later. This one of the many reasons why only real treatments (copper, hypo, tank transfer) should be trusted. If anyone says they cured their infection any other way, well, they probably didn't cure it all.

We know a lot about ich. The problem is that so many folks know so many things that aren't true. (Stolen from someone).

Well put ^

 

[convictblennie]

Yes that post #12 above made perfect sense to me... I don't think that many people know that information and I know a lot of people like to turn up their snooty noses at ich even tho chances are they have it in their tank because I would be willing to bet that most people don't qt everything that goes into their tanks. Also, a lot of people will say just to qt the fish for 6-8 weeks but no one will talk about treating them... so I think that they then believe that he fish doesn't have ich when chances are it does even if they didn't see spots...I'm not talking about this forum... I'm talking about how it is in my area

 

[Deinonych]

QT is not difficult, it just requires suppression of the need for immediate gratification. I would love to be able to plop a new fish into the display tank, but it's just not worth the risk. Plus, most of these fish came directly from the reefs days prior to arriving in our tanks. Besides the benefit of disease treatment, QT allows the fish to acclimate to captivity and eat prepared foods without having additional stressors from other fish. As the mantra goes, nothing good happens fast in this hobby.

 

[MrTuskfish]

QT is not difficult, it just requires suppression of the need for immediate gratification. I would love to be able to plop a new fish into the display tank, but it's just not worth the risk. Plus, most of these fish came directly from the reefs days prior to arriving in our tanks. Besides the benefit of disease treatment, QT allows the fish to acclimate to captivity and eat prepared foods without having additional stressors from other fish. As the mantra goes, nothing good happens fast in this hobby.

Can't be repeated often enough. I wish I had a dime for every post in the disease forum that says "I know I should have used a qt......"

 

[convictblennie]

I've heard many people talk about QT'ing at my lfs and from my local forums but no one ever talked about coppering every single fish... I've also never heard of QT'ing corals... I would think that if I owned a saltwater store I would make it my business to educate myself on this stuff... When I talk to my lfs owners about stuff like this... and mind you these stores only sell saltwater fish and accessories... it's always this attitude like everyone online is exaggerating and not to listen to them...

 

[Deinonych]

You have to remember that an LFS is in business to sell you things. Often this is in conflict with what is best for the livestock. After all, if you don't keep buying from them, they go out of business.

Also, I have moved away from using copper for prophylactic treatment, instead using chloroquine phosphate. It is much easier to administer (it's a "one and done" medication), it's highly effective against cryptocaryon and amyloodinium, and it's relatively gentle on the fish.