Ick!!!

Jason Aspley

In Memoriam
Hello, this is my first post on here. I just set up a 125 gallon Salt tank. I have only fish in it and just noticed a case of the Ick. I have not had Ick in a long time. What is out there that is good to get rid of this now??

Thank You for your help
Jason
 
I just got done fighting it myself....Trying to save a fish from petco cost me big time. But that fish I was trying to save died cause it was not well from the beginning, but it made all my fish sick. Keeping up with my tank cleaning and water changes. I started mixing my own food with raw garlic and feed it to them on a daily basis. Ich have receded big time. Is this a newly setup tank? What kind of fish do you have in there? What type of filtration do you have going in there? What type of substrate are you using? All your test levels?
 
hiya Jason. welcome to the forum!
with only one fish i would consider a quarantine tank and treating it with hypo salinity or copper. No reason for you to start off on the wrong foot. If you must keep the fish in your tank I would make sure your temps are staying stable, your parameters are stable, and maybe try mixing some Metronidazole and garlic guard with the fishes food.
 
Don't panic. Give them only selcon soaked food. I fought ich twice without any medication or temperature changes. Each time my fish made a full recovery and are now very healthy. Its better to boost the fish's natural immunity rather than medicating. It's better to be proacive at this point. Some fish will not recover naturally under good conditions and will go through this process all over.

What are your parameters, pH, nitrates, ammonia, nitrites, alkilinity, calcium etc and what kind of filtration do you use?

In my experience Ich always started with some stress causing factor. For example, if you are moving and rearranging your live rock frequently this can stress the fish.

Selcon is real cheap, soak Hikari Marine-S in Selcon for a few hours and drop the food very slowly with the back of a plastic spoon or fork. Turn off all the pump so it doesnt blow the selcon off the food. My fish love selcon soaked food. It also helps if you add a few drops of vitamin c after a few days to ease the recovery.

What we are trying to do here is help the fish develop Specific Imnnunity to the disease. Once the antibodies in the fish develop specific immune memory, the fish will naturally fight the pathogen, preventing re-infection.

vitamin C biosynthesis does not occur in fish due to the
lack of certain enzymes. This powerful antioxidant is helpful in boosting the fish's natural immune system especially when it's stressed.

Few things or lack there of that will stress the fish: crowding, handling, bad water quality, unusual temeperature, pollutants(contamination), well balanced diet with Omega-3 etc.

It will take you 7 days or more to fight Ich using this method(given that all your other parameters are good)

You can use garlic aswell. Some pictures of your fish, tank and more details about your water chemistry will help us see the problem better.
 
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WOW, Thanks for all the help. I will get everything checked and take the advise given. I will updated you on everything.

In the tank I have

1 small Loin Fish
3 Clowns
1 Yellow Tang
1 Blue Tang
1 Emperer Angle
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14346921#post14346921 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Jason Aspley
WOW, Thanks for all the help. I will get everything checked and take the advise given. I will updated you on everything.

In the tank I have

1 small Loin Fish
3 Clowns
1 Yellow Tang
1 Blue Tang
1 Emperer Angle

Not very wise to get Clowns with a Lion Fish!!!!!
 
like michael said, watch out, those clowns can become food even for dwarf lions.

as to the ick problem, I experienced it alot when I first got into the hobby and through listening to others, reading alot of forums, and just plain doing it have found a few things:

- ick will live on in your system even without you visibly seeing anymore of it

- sick, stressed, and picked on fish are more prone to allowing to it attach the them and spread it to your other fish

- quarantining your fish, curing them, and leaving the display tank fallow for 6 weeks is the only way to 100% break the life cycle of ick


oh, and welcome to reef central!
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14352167#post14352167 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by meintn

- quarantining your fish, curing them, and leaving the display tank fallow for 6 weeks is the only way to 100% break the life cycle of ick

I think the 100% is a false assumption. Parasites and pathogens can stay dormant for years. A fish that has a weak immune system can be re-infected over and over if it doesn't develop specific immune memory.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14352182#post14352182 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ai-reefer
I think the 100% is a false assumption. Parasites and pathogens can stay dormant for years. A fish that has a weak immune system can be re-infected over and over if it doesn't develop specific immune memory.


I think the 100% comes from a QT'd fish being treated by copper or hyposalinity to kill all the ick in conjunction with the tank laying fallow for 6 weeks so ick cannot reattach and the life cycle is broken. I have seen posts where some have argued against this but there's always questions about if they did the copper or hypo treatments the right way. I'll leave some leeway and say 99% of the time effective if done properly :rollface:
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14352182#post14352182 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ai-reefer
I think the 100% is a false assumption. Parasites and pathogens can stay dormant for years. A fish that has a weak immune system can be re-infected over and over if it doesn't develop specific immune memory.

It is a fact! It was going by the cycle of ich ...... They are not able to survive without a host! Some of us have been in the hobby for a while to answer stuffs like this.....
 
Ick is 100% avoidable if QTing and going fallow is done "Properly" And I mean to the letter with a calibrated refractometer. Its scientific proof.

True some things can lie dormant a long time like velvet ( I think that is one of them) but a good QT regiment on all new fish is a must if you want to avoid trouble down the road.
Its a hot topic and highly debated if disease is always preasent but just play it safe and QT if possiable or Hypo the main if you have no corals to get through this problem and QT all new guys. You will loose all your worm and pod populations but they can be replenished easy enouph but with such a big bioload its almost impossiable to pull them all out to a seperate QT and have healthy water chemistry not to mention a big enouph QT.

You can drop the SG real fast and the fish will be fine but in your case I would drop it slowley over a week or so to let the bio adjust and vacume out any dead worms you may see. And monitor the ammonia. Also like titansfan mentioned reaserch shows metro and garlic to some extent can help. As well as the other food additives mentioned to just boost the fishes health in general. Good luck and sorry you are dealing with this right from the start!
 
Also your bio is almost maxed out I would think for a 120 as your fish mature so other than a few very small fish you may add when you get over this hump it will be smooth sailing. And a small QT set up will be fine for the small fish you may add in the future since you already have your show specimens in the tank.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14357254#post14357254 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mikeyjer
They are not able to survive without a host!

They can survive without a host. Any marine biologist will tell you this.
 
Ick can not survive with out a host.... to attatch to after it emerges from its cyst stage....Can it? Link me an artical ai-reefer...showing otherwise as far as ick is concerned. All I have read on it states it has a life span, ick that is, but other things can encyst into a dormant stage (sp?) and "come alive' under proper parameters but not ick. If it has no host to attatch to to compleat a cycle the cycle is broken is the way I understand it and why you need to be fallow for so long. Not trying to be argumentative but I have read a lot on diseases and am curiouse if there is new info on ick in marine biology I am not aware of is all ;).Thanks!
 
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Ich CANNOT survive without a fish host for long periods, ie, a few days to a week or two. It is a scientific fact and has been proven. Please reread what I just typed if you have to. This IS fact, not an opinion.
 
I've often read that Ich cannot survive without a fish host either, but to be honest, I've never researched it much. And to be fair, for the sake of learning, since we are asking AI-reefer to prove otherwise, I'm interested in seeing some hard proof one way or another.

I've done some searching on my own, and found this link:

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/23132-marine-ich-myths-facts.html

#13 states that Dr. Burgess discovered the 60 days is about the longest that Ich can survive without a host.

However, after searching for more info on Dr. Peter Burgess' research, I found the following:

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml

Which indicates that his work is actually on FRESHWATER Ich, not Marine Ich. Oddly enough, #5 in the first link addresses this confusion as a source of misinformation.

I'm even less convinced one way or the other now, although the majority of information seems to indicate that they cannot survive, but can someone provide a scientific verification of this?


********** Somehow I missed the link above, It appears the Burgess' work did show this already.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14363152#post14363152 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ai-reefer
They can survive without a host. Any marine biologist will tell you this.

Find me an article to back that up! After 6 years being in the hobby, I don't ever remember reading that......
 
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