im 0 for 4 on keeping royal gramma

[hotelbravo]

Over the past year ive been trying to keep royal grammas with no luck. I have had 4 and they all seem to do great for a month or so then randomly die. My 4th died last night and I immediately went to my lfs and ran the numbers on my water quality.
Ammonia - 0
Nitrate - 40
Nitrite - 0
PH - 8.3
Salinity - 1.025
Phosphate - 0.34 ( sorta high but im trying to grow macro so I like the phosphate to be high)

I have
1 clown pair (1 picasso and 1 black ice)
1 flame angel
1 yellow tang (no tang police please)
1 mandarin dragonet
3 firefish
1 large RBTA
1 scarlet skunk shrimp
2 peppermint shrimp
3 bittle stars (the non aggressive species)
5 tiny blue leg hermits
5 mexican turbo snails
10 margarita snails
1 nessarius snail
1 carnivorous snail (whelk) who has been in my sump

All the liverock is "Real Reef Rock" (the man made rock)
The grammas have all died at night. I have not seen anything strange roaming the tank at night. I often check with my flash light to see whats sturring.

I have not seen any aggression from any fish in the tank. The only exception is very slight pecking from the female clown to the male clown.

All the royal grammas were active and eating well I feed mysis, LRS Fish Frenzy, Arcticpods, and pellets once daily.

 

[CoralNerd]

What size tank curious?
Wow, three fire fish, congrats.
Check your supplier and supply chain on the Royals, seems like it should of worked. 0 for 4 damn, next time also try some Hiarki brine shrimp, good stuff.

 

[hotelbravo]

What size tank curious?
Wow, three fire fish, congrats.
Check your supplier and supply chain on the Royals, seems like it should of worked. 0 for 4 damn, next time also try some Hiarki brine shrimp, good stuff.

90 gallon

 

[CoralNerd]

Did you get all the Royals from the same supply chain? Also what type of firefish, curious?

 

[hotelbravo]

Did you get all the Royals from the same supply chain? Also what type of firefish, curious?

Yes i believe they are all from the same supplier. i volunteer at my LFS on all my days off and ive found that they are very loyal to certain suppliers.
just the regular $8.99 red firefish. i plan to add two purple in there if these guys dont become aggressive towards each other. im going to give them another 4-5 months before deciding on whether to add more firefish or not.

 

[CoralNerd]

Adding more firefish, wow you like to gamble. Show us a full shot of your tank please. [emoji15]

 

[hotelbravo]

 

[CoralNerd]

Looks nice got some zoas, sporting the real reef rock (I got some also) Firefish out in full force [emoji106] How old is your tank?

 

[hotelbravo]

yea still working on corals my wife is extremely picky and doesnt seem to like anything :sad2:

the tank was just upgraded from a 75. its been running as a 90g maybe 1 in a half months.

 

[CoralNerd]

That's funny my wife likes to dictate the tank also. So the left side I have zoas, and eucaphilas and the right side I have my sticks.

 

[Deinonych]

IMO you are dealing with either a predator or disease vector. Since you are using Real Reef Rock, you can probably discount the former. What is your QT protocol?

 

[hotelbravo]

I dont QT. I know that its a problem. Just not sure it was this problem.. I also forgot to add I have a marina betta thats about 1.5 inches

 

[Nanighan]

Weird that you're struggling with a Royal Gramma. I considering them one of the hardiest fish in the hobby. I really hope its not a supplier/collecting issue.
How old is the tank? Is there a lot of pods running around at night? What about copepods, the tiny white pods that run around the glass.
I had a gramma that i never target fed and he lived mostly by eating pods of the glass. Then again he was really tiny and eventually ate the stuff I was offering, but this was after a couple months.
Edit: read to fast it seems your grammas are eating but just dying mysteriously. I say try a new fish store.

 

[Triggerfish]

I've also had trouble with them over the years. probably had about 4 as well.
one got killed by a sixline so that death was explained I believe.
another developed some type of eye infection and perished had for only 6 months.
few more died over the years for no apparent reason and didn't have them for that long.
my current one is doing well it seems. 8 months so far.

 

[Deinonych]

I dont QT. I know that its a problem. Just not sure it was this problem.. I also forgot to add I have a marina betta thats about 1.5 inches

Without a QT practice, there's no way to rule out disease. As noted above, Royal Grammas are very hardy and easy to keep. I've had mine for almost 2 years now.

 

[hotelbravo]

but i havent had any other deaths for a long time just the grammas

 

[Coelli]

It's got to be some kind of supply problem. I've had my gramma since September and he's about doubled in size. That fish is a machine; when I was changing tanks, unbeknownst to me he was hiding in a different rock than he usually does. He jumped out as I was lifting the rock up and into the new tank, standing on a stepladder. He fell 5 feet onto a tile floor, flopped once, and lay there stunned. I picked him up and threw him into the new tank without acclimating him. He swam into the rocks, took a day to reflect on his near-death experience, and has been fine ever since - that was 5 months ago. I'm not sure I could kill that fish if I tried.

If you really want a royal gramma, I'd try to find one somewhere other than where you've been getting them!

 

[ThRoewer]

IMO you are dealing with either a predator or disease vector. Since you are using Real Reef Rock, you can probably discount the former. What is your QT protocol?

He has corals that likely came with some rock or substrate - that's enough to bring all kinds of funny business into your tank. You wouldn't believe what I found alone on the underside of frag plugs.
Also if the zoas came with a piece of live rock there could have gotten all kinds of things into the tank.
So a predator like a bristle worm can't be discounted.

Without a QT practice, there's no way to rule out disease. As noted above, Royal Grammas are very hardy and easy to keep. I've had mine for almost 2 years now.

I can confirm that they are quite hardy, though not on the level of a Dascyllus damsel.

I have 3 in a 10 gallon QT now for almost 3 months. It's not a bare tank but decorated with a fair amount of Real Reef Rock. They all get along quite well. There is some chasing but no fighting.

I got them all together the day they arrived at the store and back them they were quite tiny. They had a flash of ich but it went away by itself and never returned.
Within the short time I have them one doubled in size - he is the male now. The second in line as grown significantly less and is now clearly female. The last grew only a little. It may be female or female in waiting. The only chasing I observe is during feeding time when the male chases the other in case they get in his way.

And these are not the first of them I had.

Overall I find them quite easy to keep.
If you have problems something is wrong - either you got sick fish or you have something in the tank that harms them.

What isn't considered by many is that mixing Atlantic and Indo-Pacific species can have some fallouts. There are disease strains that are only on one side and the fish from the other side have no resistance against them. The other known thing is that mixing Atlantic and Indo-Pacific ich strains can create new strains no fish is resistant against. So quarantine is always a good idea, even if it is just observation for a couple of months.

 

[AirForceAquariu]

So a predator like a bristle worm can't be discounted.

Bristle worms aren't predators. They are harmless detritivores. They may bother or cause harm to a fish if they come in contact but they certainly are not a predator. There are plenty of predatory worms out there and these should not be lumped in with them.

 

[Deinonych]

but i havent had any other deaths for a long time just the grammas

Understood, but the fish you have right now could be carriers of a parasite without showing visible signs of disease (i.e. subclinical infection). Have you introduced other fish in the same timeframe as the RGs without incident?