I'm a little frustrated, need some input

[KRAZ4REEFS]

Hey all, I have a 210 that I set up around christmas, upgraded from a ten year old 90 gallon. I've never had success with coloration and polyp extension of my sps corals, softies and lps do fine.

I'm looking to take my new tank to the next level, I built in in-wall with a fish room behind it. I have a 65 gallon sump with fuge, currently growing caulerpa, mangroves and cheato. A MR2 skimmer, with twin Beckett injectors and a BL-55 pump, Reeftek calcium reactor, closed loop system with an ocean motions wave maker and sequence 3600 pump, mag 18 running the overflows, RODI water, GAC and GFO running in reactors, changing media every two weeks, ect.

I have an on-going cyano problem, mostly on the sand bed and the undersides of the liverock, can't seem to beat it, my parameters seem to be good, I feed very little due to the aglae problem. In the morning after the lights have been out all night, little to no algae, during the day it gets worse and air bubbles form on the surface of the algae and rise to the top of the tank.

for lighting I have 3- 400 watt SE 14,000k, no actinic supp, I run the from about 4:00 pm till 10:00 pm everyday, these were inexpensive bulbs from EBAY and I think could be part of the problem?

sg 1.025-1.026
temp 78-80
cal 350-400, higher lately, getting reator dialed in
Alk 8.5-11
MG 1000-1300, higher lately, again getting dialed in
PH 8.1, always
Phos 0, always
nitrates 0 always

ANY IDEAS?

Sorry for the long winded post, just wanted to give as much info as I thought was important.

Thanks in advance,
Scott

 

[dudley moray]

could be your ebay bulbs if you do in fact have 0ppm no3 you could also try adding actinics as well your flow sounds good so this only leaves the lack of blue spectrum light as your main culprit BUT... there is also one other thing it could be as i have heard that there are dinoflagelates that look like cyano but are not as easy to get rid of there are other threads describing how check the reef discussion forum

 

[KRAZ4REEFS]

Good point, I'm not 100% sure that it's cyano either, could be something else I suppose. I'm pretty sure about the low to undetecable P04 and No3, have tested both regularly with Salifert test kits, unless the test kits are faulty. The funny thing is that I have always contributed algae to be from high P04 and have always touted a fuge to control it, doesn't seem to working this time:sad1:

 

[KRAZ4REEFS]

Just did a search on Dinoflagellates, definetly not that. What I have is brown, kinda slimey, almost like velvet, grows on the sandbed and mostly on the bottom edges of the liverock, goes away without light, comes back when the lights come back on and gets worse, eventually gets air bubbles on the surface of it until the lights go back out. Funny though, if it were due to the lights, I would think that the top of the rocks would get it worse where the light is the brightest. Would keeping the lights out for a few days possibly cure the problem or would it just come right back when the lights ae turned back on?

 

[x2uranium]

when was the last time you changed your DI resin?

 

[psuedopimp]

your sand may be holding phosphates if it is old, and releasing just enough for the algae but not for the tests.

 

[RickMartin]

Cheap bulbs may encourage algae growth, but thats not the problem. Nutrients are. With the problem algae mostly on the sand bed I would guess you have a build up of nutrients in the sand. Sand stirring and sifting creatures will help, but the problem is you already have a build up. Manually stirring the sand, very small sections at a time might help, be careful not to disturb too much at a time as will likely releasing a great deal of nutrients and possibly some toxins.
Also check you DI resin as was suggested and anything else that is being added. You want to add as little nutrients as possible while exporting as much as possible. Maybe even reduce water changes if you aren't sure about the quality of your ro/di

 

[Surf&turf]

Vacuum your sand bed at each water change.

Was having the same problem, went away after I started, sand stays nice and white now

 

[Mattik]

I am guessing you are suffering from new tank syndrome. I realize that you upgraded a smaller tank into this one. But with such a huge jump in volume and surface area of the sandbed, I bet you have "dead spots" in the sand. I'm assuming you had to add a TON of extra sand to what you already had?

While the LR and old sand (not to mention the light bioload and low feeding) may be keeping up water quality , the dead spots may still be cycling. This is especially so with your relatively low water flow. If I read your orig post right, you have:

One mag 18 = 1800 gph
One Seq 3600 = 3600 gph
Total = 5400 gph

That is only 25X tank volume, which is definitely on the low end. You may try increasing to more liek 40-50 X tank volume to better circulate the "dead spots" and get potential localized nutrient build up moving to other areas where it can be filtered out of the water.

Other than that, I would suggest just sitting on it for a couple more months to see if it goes away on its own. Especially if residents are doing well and water params continue to look good.

 

[KRAZ4REEFS]

Thanks for all the replys!

Let me give a little more detail

I bought new sand for the new tank, have not used any of the old stuff, (one bag or Aragonite and 1 bag of southdown), they had been sitting around for a few years in my garage. I only have about an inch of sand total.

I did use all of the live rock from the old tank, (it had cyano on it), I shook off the rocks when I was switching them to the new tank and rinsed with salt water, (I'm sure some of it was still in the rock).

When I made new RODI water for the new tank, I changed the DI cartrige, (I did not change the carbons or membrane though), I had a bunch of new DI's and no new carbons, TDS was around 2 from memory. The RODI filters were not being used for a couple of years though, I let my 90 gallon tank go for a couple of years due to other things in my life and so water changes and making RODI water went by the way side for a couple of years, I know, I know, my bad!

I just changed all of the filters again except for the membrane, that is origional, I guess it wouldn't be a bad idea to change it either, although the TDS is now zero.

I haven't been feeding much, (small pinch of flake and a cap of phyto every couple of days), and only have about 7 small fish total, small Chomis and clowns. I'm afraid to feed any more due to the algae problem, although that my be some of the reason for the sps to be suffering color and polyp ext?

Funny you guys suggested stirring the sand a little, I did that some a few weeks back and the sand was kinda clumped together or solid, breaking it up seemed to help a bit for a short tem, maybe I should vacume the cyano and the sand surface as suggested and try to remove the cyano? I can always add more sand later if too much come out.

Sorry again for being a wind bag, just kinda frustrating. I know I did a couple things that didn't help, mainly the old RODI filters, I knew better!

Thanks again,
Scott

 

[KRAZ4REEFS]

Can someone clarify good or bad nutrients BTW, I've always thought get rid of as much nutrients as possible, but I'm reading that corals need the nutrients. Is it export as much as possible except for when feeding and the export as much as possible again? How about skimming, I usually shut down my skimmer while feeding for 10 mins or so and then resume.

 

[Mattik]

Especially if all sand is new, I think it is new tank syndrome. It will take a while for the sand to fully cycle. However, with all the LR and filtration, I think your water is staying pretty clean.

Yes, corals need nutrients. For example, phosphates of around 3ppm are good (same as natural sea water), and if it goes to absolute zero, corals cannot calcify properly. Nitrates can be between 3-5 ppm and this is thought to improve coral colaration. Too high, however, and your corals will burn out.

That doesn't mean you should not clean the water. If nutrients build up, it is bad, encouraging algae/bacteria to accumulate, etc. However, corals do need some nutrients, so the key is balance and stability.

Some say that adding a few fish can improve coral color and growth. Others use supplements or various mechanical means of adding nutrients in a balanced, low concentration mannger.

I personally do not manage to that level of detail (Ca, dKh, Mg, and a couple of basic supplements is all I do). But I'm finding that as time goes on, I am adding more and more things that I monitor.

 

[KRAZ4REEFS]

Thanks Mattik, sounds as though I just need to keep doing what I have been and keep the nutrients as low as possible for now till everything is in sinc and then increase the nurient level a little for the corals.

I do feel a little better, keep thinking what am I doing wrong, maybe just relax and let it "season"

Thanks,
Scott