I'm a man with a (Ich) plan. Is it a good one?

[Fountainhead]

I've posted a couple of questions regarding my powder brown with Ich, and I've developed an overall plan of attack. Feedback would be helpful.

Short recap. Kept tang in Q for 4 weeks (hypo for 3) and then introduced into display. Showed Ich in 2 days. Got him out and back into Q. Started copper (CopperSafe). No other fish have yet shown any symptoms.

First, am I correct that I'd still need to move all the fish out of the display even if they're symptom free? There are two oscellaris clowns, one yellow tang, one flame angel, and one pink-spotted goby. What if I just keep the powder brown in Q for a few weeks, then move him back if no other fish show symptoms? What are the odds he'll get Ich again?

If I must Q all fish, here's my plan. The tang is in a 29 with copper. Clearly not big enough for all the fish. I'm going to set up a new 55 and move the powder brown into it after a couple of weeks in the copper. (No copper in the 55.) Then I'll remove the rest of the fish from the display and move them into the 55 as well. I don't want to subject them all to copper, so I'll reduce the salinity to 1.009 over a few days. After a month or so in hypo, I'll take a week or so to raise the salinity back up. By this time the display will have been fallow for 6 weeks or more, and I'll move them all back.

Does this seem like a reasonable course of action? Is it necessary? Or could I just treat the tang and leave the others where they're at? Comments?

 

[fdnyhm1]

Quarantining your new fish prior to adding them to your system is a great idea. But remember that your fish are always susceptable to getting ick even after you quarantine them. One thing that always will help is good nutrition. I have found a great new product line. A company called Blue Lagoon makes great food. They make a regular food loaded with vitamins, an anti parasite, anti bacterial food and a suplemental vitamin formula to add to any food. Fish really love it and as long as your fish are eating they stand a better chance of fighting off any illness, even preventing the out break in the beginning if your fish have a strong immune system.
Give it a try you won't regret it.

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=OSI

 

[Aquai]

Is it definetly white spot being shown on the tang? (I.e. is it still there?)

 

[Fountainhead]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8239408#post8239408 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquai
Is it definetly white spot being shown on the tang? (I.e. is it still there?)

Near as I could tell. Started with a couple of spots (like sugar) and progressed to many more spots, rather like a dusting of sugar. I suppose it could be velvet too. I've not had any prior experience with either. Most of the spots are gone now, but there are a few left. The lighting in the q tank is rather dim (and 3 sides are painted black) so it's really hard to see the detail.

 

[Lake75]

It is for sure a good plan. Is it necessary? Only you can answer. It kinda depends on how much risk you can take. Most of the QT guys will definitely tell you to quarantine all of your fish and let the tank go fallow for 6 weeks.

I never quarantine my fish during the past 1.5 years (I know it's bad, but I simply didn't have the resource to do it) and I never had ich breakout and all my fish were really healthy--that is, until I added a tiny blue tang (~1.5") from a mail order to my tank. The fish had ich right away and it spread to my yellow tang and false clown. The old fish lost their appetite for 1 or 2 days, but were able to fight back on their own and fully recovered. So, I hoped the blue tang could do the same and didn't take him out for treatment (actually there is no way I could catch him w/o taking down my tank). One week later, it died.

After that, I was practically waiting for another breakout since I know the tank had been infected. Without a large hospital tank available to treat all my fish, I did what I could: I performed almost daily water change (5~10%) for about 4 weeks, hoping to break the ich life cycle. I kept the water condition good and fed my fish well to keep them healthy. At last, I prayed that the many corals and filter-feeding animals in my tank would help reduce the number of free-swimming forms of ich (some experts suggested so). I don't know whether or not these practices really worked, but 2 months later I hadn’t seen any signs of ich coming back.

So, I bit the bullet and got another tiny blue tang. This time I learned my lesson and set up a 10 gal QT with CopperSafe. I used only water from my display tank for all the water needs by the QT and fed the fish with Selcon-soaked food. As I mentioned in another thread of yours, I treated the fish for 3 weeks and then phased out the copper. I figured that if I did have ich cyst or free-swimming theronts in my diplay, then they must be in the QT too; without the protection of copper, the blue tang would have been infected again. 1 week later, the blue tang became even better. So, I transferred him into my display. It's been more than 10 days now and he’s healthy and active. I can't say for sure that I won't be having another breakout in a few months like some guys did (knock on wood), but at this time I think everything is going on really well.

So, the bottom line is, if you can take out all your fish without a lot of troubles, then it surely is the best way to do. Otherwise, you may get lucky by simply relying on your fish being healthy enough to fend themselves. â€"œJust my experience.

 

[Fountainhead]

Thanks for your insights. I just don't know what to do about pulling the rest of the fish out. I'd surely hate getting this tang healthy and then just re-infecting him. On the other hand, getting those fish out of the tank will involve tearing everything out. No way I'll get that goby if there's even one rock in the tank. He hardly comes all the way out under normal circumstances, let alone a wild man with a net chasing him.

 

[arizona tech]

yea pulling out the other fish is a hassle, i went through the same with my tank 2 clowns were showing spots and scratching but my neon goby didnt pulled the clows and put in qt , i added a henni butterfly, 2 weekds later and 5- weeks later no problems, i would keep a close eye one the other fish for the next 3-4 weeks the worst case would be if poss hypo the main

 

[bureau13]

Yes, your fish may always "be susceptible" to ich...but if its not on them, and its not in your system, they won't get it. That's why simply killing the parasite on your tang isn't good enough. If you don't get the other fish out, he may well get it again when you put him back in. He may not. Is ich still in the tank if none of the other fish show symptoms? This is where I have some trouble with conventional wisdom. I've been told yes, that fish with healthy immune systems can act as a fish host without every actually appearing infected. I'm not 100% sure I believe this, but once you get hit with a major infection, and you have to get your fish out to quarantine them, you tend to stop taking chances where practical.

The other thing I quibble with...if you assume that yes, fish can act as hosts without showing symptoms...then it stands to reason that putting them in a QT for a while without medicating them is worthless. IMO you have to treat them. I have Coppersafe but I've never used it. Supposedly, Cupramine is a very effective copper-based medication that is much easier on the fish. I can't confirm that, since I've only used Cupramine, but I will say that the fish (all tangs to date) showed no adverse reactions to the treatment.

jds

 

[Fountainhead]

Arizona Tech - No way to hypo the main tank. It's a reef.

Bureau - If I do pull the rest of the fish out for quarantine, I'll likely do hypo on them. In the absence of symptoms, I'd just not want to subject them to copper.

I'm just having a hard time accepting that Ich could be active in the system and none of the other 5 fish would get it. If the tang was removed quickly enough, is there a chance that it simply didn't have an opportunity to reproduce sufficiently? Of course, it's only been a couple of days so maybe it'll show up.

 

[arizona tech]

i understand the reef thing, i agree on if you remove the tang quickly enough you will not see a problem, its probably 50-50 if anybody shows something, like i said i pulled my 2 clowns from my tank the next day, when i found ick on them and put a fish in 2 wks later no problems, like you said its only been a couple of days give it a month then you will be ok, i would feed the other fish a good diet

 

[Conceyted]

The first time I ever had a disease problem it was with Brookynella. Our clown pair got it and transfered it to our gramma. We treated the clowns and upon removing the clowns for treatment the gramma was ridded of it.

However, when our new 90 recently got ich, within a matter of days everything was affected. I pulled all of the fish out and introduced them into hypo over the course of a week. They have been in hypo for a week now and went into hypo the day before I went to Macna. Unfortunately I lost the gramma to the transfer from regular to hypo salinity. And today I found one of my black ocellaris (the male) not looking too well. I guess my point is that ich is not a laughable matter and neither is hypo. My fish that I recently lost were EXTREMELY health and each about a year and a half old. However I guess the ich had such a serious effect on them and the added stress of hypo ended up killing them. Truly discouraging. However, I dont trust any other way to rid ich besides hyposalinity so it is all I can recommend for you. Just know that getting that fish away from your other fish that appear uneffected is KEY. And if any other fish begins to look infected pull them all out, because chances are it is in the tank.

Since the ich outbreak Jaime and I have vowed to stay away from tangs. But I am sure after the dust settles we will change our mind. Good luck man!

 

[bureau13]

My particular demon that caused me to see the light about quarantine was velvet. Similar to ich, but more deadly and faster moving. I haven't sworn off tangs though...I'm trying to swear off parasites!

Fountainhead, I've seen hypo negatively impact fish as much if not more so than copper. I realize that many people will probably not agree with that.

jds

 

[arizona tech]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8242426#post8242426 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bureau13
My particular demon that caused me to see the light about quarantine was velvet. Similar to ich, but more deadly and faster moving. I haven't sworn off tangs though...I'm trying to swear off parasites!

Fountainhead, I've seen hypo negatively impact fish as much if not more so than copper. I realize that many people will probably not agree with that.

jds

i agree some people swear that hypo is no ill affects, but i have taken fish that have been eating fine and droped the salinty and they would stop eating,both have there + and -

 

[Triggerfish]

fountainhead-

either the tang had ich or the system had it or both.
first off, after any treatment, you want to observe for an additional month to ensure it was successful..you waited a week. no good.

if you want to eradicate the parasite from the system you will need to remove all fish. i really recommend going a full 8 weeks. again depending on specific parasitic strain you may be dealing with, 6 weeks could be a little light.

you should treat all fish that came from display,,hypo or copper your choice.
if anything shows up during quarantine you must ensure they look good for 6 weeks after last spot is seen. fish infected but not showing signs of infection is always going to be problematic ..that's why i recommend pre-treatment when possible. more of an added safety measure.

i believe the largest problem you may face is stabalizing the qt if it is not already established. that's where most folks have issue. i am battling that now..what a hassle.
good luck

 

[BLANKENSHIP76]

I have had two ich break-outs and both times I have fed my tank Blue Lagoon fish food. Since, I got them eating early in the cycle I think this helped them. It says it fights parasites and I believe them because I have no reoccurance of Ich in the tank and it has been 4 months.