Im about to move all my fish to a QT.. please help!

[wooden_reefer]

This goes against everything I was told about copper even by some experts. So do you have any documented material to substantiate your claim?

Who recently has stated that copper has significant impact on nitrification bacteria?

Copper kills many higher live forms, many inverts, but not nitrification bacteria.

Common knowledge by now.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Straight copper at concentration to cure ich has almost no impact on nitrification bacteria.

Nitrification is almost unaffected.

I have used straight copper this way for over twenty five years.

You do not need to consider the impact of copper on nitrification, in general.

Long ago, Coppersafe stated that nitrification may be affected by 20% initially until a more copper resistant strain develops.

I don't believe straight copper at say 0.3 ppm has any significant impact on nitrification.

 

[wooden_reefer]

No wonder why some many people still consider QT stressful.

Many do no cycle the medium intended for QT. Ammonia is very toxic to fish.

QT in general is not stressful because fish in QT should not be exposed to any ammonia at all. Nitrification is not affected in general in the eight or more weeks of treatment to eradicated ich.

The only instances when fish in QT may be exposed to ammonia is in conjunction with other drug treatment that affects nitrification, not copper or hypo against ich.

Moreover, many commonly available antibiotics, such as neomycin, kanamycin do not gravely affect nitrification, only somewhat. Frequently, one would have detectable nitrite but little ammonia. Some other antibiotics will wipeout nitrification bacteria, however.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Guys I have a Yellow Tang, Blue Hippo Tang, 3 Pajama Cardinals, and 2 Ocellarius Clown fish. The Tangs are happy colorful, but white spotty and dusty looking, I've got a clown that that has now moved away from his mate and is hiding in the rocks, I've seen some white stringy poop floating around.. and my Pajama dont seem affected or my 2nd clown. I think its time to move them all to a QT tank, something that I've never used before.. for at least a month to help kill any ICK in my tank as I treat my fish.

Do i have any chance of keeping any of these fish alive so that I can get the Display tank stabalized, my fish healthy, and start that part of it over.. Im really upset about this and if any of you have any experinces with this or have some tips, suggestions on things to do, or any comments or helpful direction I would love to know.

The biggest question is how are you going to rid the QT of ammonia.

There is a reason to cycle a DT; the same reason you should have cycled for the QT. The reason for both is that ammonia at whatever level is toxic to fish.

You can start to cycle the filter medium for the QT in a separate container now. Use the seed and waste method. A wet-dry setup will take only three weeks to cycle.

You change water in QT for three weeks by then your cycle will be done. You can then use the cycled filter medium.

Using a HOT power box filter on the DT and polyester floss as the medium can also collect some bacteria from the DT to be used in QT. This may help a little but likely not enough with so many fish.

Not a happy situation. Not enough planning in advance, I am afraid.

 

[RBU1]

The biggest question is how are you going to rid the QT of ammonia.

There is a reason to cycle a DT; the same reason you should have cycled for the QT. The reason for both is that ammonia at whatever level is toxic to fish.

You can start to cycle the filter medium for the QT in a separate container now. Use the seed and waste method. A wet-dry setup will take only three weeks to cycle.

You change water in QT for three weeks by then your cycle will be done. You can then use the cycled filter medium.

Using a HOT power box filter on the DT and polyester floss as the medium can also collect some bacteria from the DT to be used in QT. This may help a little but likely not enough with so many fish.

Not a happy situation. Not enough planning in advance, I am afraid.

OK then please explain to me why am I getting a slight amonnia and nitrite reading on a 125 treatment tank that has been setup and running since Aug 9....Not all the time do I get this reading only every so often so I add more bacteria to the tank. I am running a hang on filter with bio wheels and a w/d filter with bio balls....and I only have 2 small clowns a small emp angel and a cleaner wrasse...

 

[wooden_reefer]

OK then please explain to me why am I getting a slight amonnia and nitrite reading on a 125 treatment tank that has been setup and running since Aug 9....Not all the time do I get this reading only every so often so I add more bacteria to the tank. I am running a hang on filter with bio wheels and a w/d filter with bio balls....and I only have 2 small clowns a small emp angel and a cleaner wrasse...

Do you mean you get a slight ammonia and nitrite reading after you added copper?

As Coppersafe literature points out, initial use of CopperSafe can depress nitrification by about 20% until a copper resistant strain develops. This may apply for straight copper, which I use. I don't notice such small reduction because of the way I cycle, and QT soon after cycle.

In general, 20% reduction of nitrification can be handled simply by somewhat restricted feeding.

The way I cycle, using the seed and waste method, creates very dense and active nitrification bacteria at the conclusion of a cycle. The cycled medium can handle many many fish. In general, only a fraction of the nitrification capacity is used, so a 20% reduction in nitrification means little.

If you are not referring to copper, ammonia and nitrite should always be zero in an established tank. Either you have a problem with your setup or your test kit is not accurate.

 

[RBU1]

No copper being used...What I am saying is that 3 week time frame you mentioned about a tank with a W/D filter may be a little off....

My test kit is new

Sometimes I get a slight amonnia and nitrite reading and sometimes I get nothing....

All I am using is Paraguard..........

 

[RBU1]

The way I cycle, using the seed and waste method, creates very dense and active nitrification bacteria at the conclusion of a cycle. The cycled medium can handle many many fish. In general, only a fraction of the nitrification capacity is used, so a 20% reduction in nitrification means little.

And how do you accomplish this?

 

[wooden_reefer]

And how do you accomplish this?

Seed is nitrification bacteria

Waste is either human urine or emulsified animal protein such as shrimp or fish flesh. You can also use an amminium salt such as ammonium chloride. (or even ammonium nitrate, most ammonia fertilizer if you change 100% of the water after cycling.)

Nitrification bacteria thrive in highly oxygenated and well circulated conditions. Unlike denitrification bacteria that require moderate conditions, nitrification bacteria grow best in conditions that the aquarist can very easily achieve. Nitrification bacteria are extremists, which makes them very easy to grow.

You basically just add bacteria, wastes and circulate and allow vigorous gases exchange while you cycle the medium, better in a separate container rather than the tank. No water change needed for the while cycle. Just add more waste a couple of times and wait. Change all water after cycling.

Best is the wet-dry setup, but not always necessary. Totally submerged setup will work well enough often. For wet-dry, you just drip water onto the medium.

For medium, use crushed oyster shell or crushed coral wrapped in tightly stretched nylon panty hose. Best is knee-high. These will form turgid balls that are easy to stack up. You can have a section in your sump for these balls AFTER they are cycled separately in a separate container. Remove the balls one at a time over the course of a few months so that the live rock can take over filtration gradually.

You can also cycle the live rock directly in a larger container or in the tank (more wasteful of water with 100% water change) , but I like the compactness of crushed coral in a sack.

Cycling from the dead using the seed and waste method is very very easy.

You typically can create a medium that can handle many fish all at once, in terms of zero ammonia and nitrite. Typically, about ten of such balls, size of a large orange, can handle a few ppm of ammonia in a couple of days, far more than any reasonable bioload.

Nitrification bacteria do not starve to death quickly, but slowly. About one month after cycling, you will not lose most of the bacteria, some but not most.

 

[wooden_reefer]

If upon completion of the cycle, your medium can process 2 ppm ammonia a day, no realistic bioload can exceeded, or even approach, this nitrification capacity up to about one month after the cycle.

If at the tail end of the cycle, you add 5 ppm ammonia three times about five days apart, you will have very high nitrification at least a month after the cycle.

 

[RBU1]

Seed is nitrification bacteria

Waste is either human urine or emulsified animal protein such as shrimp or fish flesh. You can also use an amminium salt such as ammonium chloride. (or even ammonium nitrate, most ammonia fertilizer if you change 100% of the water after cycling.)

Nitrification bacteria thrive in highly oxygenated and well circulated conditions. Unlike denitrification bacteria that require moderate conditions, nitrification bacteria grow best in conditions that the aquarist can very easily achieve. Nitrification bacteria are extremists, which makes them very easy to grow.

You basically just add bacteria, wastes and circulate and allow vigorous gases exchange while you cycle the medium, better in a separate container rather than the tank. No water change needed for the while cycle. Just add more waste a couple of times and wait. Change all water after cycling.

Best is the wet-dry setup, but not always necessary. Totally submerged setup will work well enough often. For wet-dry, you just drip water onto the medium.

For medium, use crushed oyster shell or crushed coral wrapped in tightly stretched nylon panty hose. Best is knee-high. These will form turgid balls that are easy to stack up. You can have a section in your sump for these balls AFTER they are cycled separately in a separate container. Remove the balls one at a time over the course of a few months so that the live rock can take over filtration gradually.

You can also cycle the live rock directly in a larger container or in the tank (more wasteful of water with 100% water change) , but I like the compactness of crushed coral in a sack.

Cycling from the dead using the seed and waste method is very very easy.

You typically can create a medium that can handle many fish all at once, in terms of zero ammonia and nitrite. Typically, about ten of such balls, size of a large orange, can handle a few ppm of ammonia in a couple of days, far more than any reasonable bioload.

Nitrification bacteria do not starve to death quickly, but slowly. About one month after cycling, you will not lose most of the bacteria, some but not most.

Thanks but I am still really confused? I plan on just letting my 125 run till I get my 300 fully stocked again. So letting the tank run with fish in it should help to keep the bacteria I need working right? LIke I said this tank has been running since Aug 9th. If I get a reading of amonnia or nitrite I add bottled bacteria like nitromax....Seems to be working the fish have been in there for 2 and a half months.

 

[wooden_reefer]

First, if you really still have ammonia and/or nitrite months after the DT has been established, some thing is not right. An established tank should have zero ammonia and nitrite. You should investigate this problem. Nitrification is easy and should be perfect. You should have no detectable ammonia or nitrite.

Second, you can always, at any time, boost the nitrification capacity of any tank even years after a cycle. You need to plan in advance certainly. You do the same cycling with seed and waste method to cycle a medium in a separate container. You can then add this medium (rinse it with tank water first if you want) to the sump of the DT or, for live rock, into the DT.