In BioCube Hell, Assistance Appreciated

[ChaseNet]

OK so for christmas, my daughter got a CoraLife BioCube 29G, which actually means, I got it, cause she's 6, and can only really feed the fish. But I'm super stoked none the less, cause I haven't had a tank since the fiasco of 2010 (which you can read about in my intro post).

I'm posting here, because though I have past experience, my knowledge is lacking, and I have no doubt you guys can help, so here I go, in as best of detail as possible.

Mid January, I did the "reincarnation process" found here on ReefCentral to a large piece of live rock that I got back my friend, who finally took apart his tank, after an all out war with some nasty crap. I loved the rock, wanted it back for my daughters tank, and figured the reincarnation process would be the best bet.

Late January, we put hawaiian live lava rock sand, the reincarnated rock, and salt water in the tank, turned on the lights, and pump, and left it to cycle for about 10 days.

February 8th, we added the following;
CoraLife BioCube Protein Skimmer
Heater - set to 78
5x small blue legged hermit crabs
1x red scarlet hermit crab
3x astrea snails
2x margarita snails

February 12th, we added the following
1 piece of rock with Star (Green) Polyps
1 piece of rock with Yellow Polyps
1 Royal Gamma Dottyback
1 Whitespotted Pygmy Filefish
1 Cleaner Shrimp
1 small Common Colored Urchin

We've been feeding the fish Hikari Mysis and Spirulina Brine Shrimp

Around February 20th, the sea urchin died, no idea what the cause was. Taking a close look around, it appeared as though a few snails and hermit crabs were no longer moving either.

By February 22nd, the reincarnated rock and the glass was looking quite a bit green, I ran all the water tests, and everything came back about as great as you would expect with a new tank. Test Results were as follow;

Salinity - 1.025 using a hydrometer
Calcium - 440ppm
HiPH - 8.0
Ammonia - 0.25ppm
Nitrite - 2.0ppm
Nitrate - below 5.0ppm
KH - 10dKH or 179ppm
Phosphate - 0.25ppm

I then proceeded to the store and picked up 6 small cerith snails, and 2 Turbo Snails to eat up all the green. To date, they have done a great job.

February 25th, I felt the bioballs and protein skimmer were not doing the job, so I decided to purchase a media basket, and a cheato basket to replace the bioballs in the second chamber. Out came the bioballs, in went the two baskets.

The media basket currently has some high quality floss in the top chamber, and the bottom chamber has Chemi-Pure. I left the middle basket empty.

The cheato basket has nothing in it currently, as I still need to purchase an LED for it so the cheato can grow.

On this same day, I also decided the main rock (the one I reincarnated) was simply far too large for the tank, so I moved all the crabs, snails, etc from the rock, pulled it out, took it outside, broke a few large junks off it, and gently positioned it back in the water. No longer takes up 3/4 of tank.

Feberuary 26th, 1 hour before I have to leave for work, the Dottyback flops around, then dies. Wife said it looked like it was gasping. Daughter had a lovely funeral for it. Hours after I left, I get a message saying the other fish did the same thing then died.

Wife insisted I ask the following question - They looked like they were gasping for air, could there not be enough oxygen in the water?

February 28th, I got home and tested all the water again, test results were;

Salinity - 1.028 using a Refractometer
Calcium - 400ppm
HiPH - 7.8
Ammonia - below 0.25ppm
Nitrite - 0.5 - 1.0ppm
Nitrate - below 5.0ppm
KH - 10dKH or 179ppm
Phosphate - below 0.25ppm

I really have felt that the BioCube Skimmer was just not working as it should, so I took it out.


Conlusion since February 26th, both fish have died, cleaner shrimp shedded again, both corals haven't opened up at all. large rock is less green, nearly no green on glass. No idea what happened, why they died, etc.

All advice and suggestions are welcomed....

 

[donut0079]

I think from your parameters. That the rock did not have enough time to mature. Was it dry before this? If it was it would take much longer for the rock to develop bacteria. The fact that you are seeing nitrites or ammonia at all indicates a problem with the biological filter. Carbon or a skimmer will not fix that. It simply needs time undisturbed.

 

[Lilbitreefer]

how long did the tank cycle before putting in fish? I am not familiar with chemi pure, did you rinse it before putting it in?
I wouldn't think this would be a problem but if they died right after you moved the rock, inevitably the sand you may have release a nitrogen pocket either when you disturbed the sane or broke off the rock. I have heard those can kill fish real quick. I would probably do a water change and let it cycle for another month before putting any fish in it, just to make sure it's not new tank syndrome and maybe only add one fish every two weeks-month if you want more than one.

 

[ChaseNet]

The Large rock went through the "reincarnation process" found here on Reef Central. So bleached, muriatic acid, baking soda, soaked and rinsed with fresh water, over and over again. It went from a wet fresh water tub to the tank in late January. It was never at point left out of water to dry up, so to speak. Hope that gives more details on the large rock.

FYI, I will get some before and after pics up when the wife gets home, so you all have some visuals.

 

[Lilbitreefer]

I'm with donut on the new rock idea.

 

[ChaseNet]

how long did the tank cycle before putting in fish? I am not familiar with chemi pure, did you rinse it before putting it in?
I wouldn't think this would be a problem but if they died right after you moved the rock, inevitably the sand you may have release a nitrogen pocket either when you disturbed the sane or broke off the rock. I have heard those can kill fish real quick. I would probably do a water change and let it cycle for another month before putting any fish in it, just to make sure it's not new tank syndrome and maybe only add one fish every two weeks-month if you want more than one.

Tank cycled 16 days before we added those crabs on February 8th, another 4 days, before a fish was added on February 12th.

The chemi-pure was rinsed out as per directions until the water was clear again.

 

[username in use]

You should cycle without fish for more like 8 weeks.

 

[gone fishin]

The Large rock went through the "reincarnation process" found here on Reef Central. So bleached, muriatic acid, baking soda, soaked and rinsed with fresh water, over and over again. It went from a wet fresh water tub to the tank in late January. It was never at point left out of water to dry up, so to speak. Hope that gives more details on the large rock.

FYI, I will get some before and after pics up when the wife gets home, so you all have some visuals.

That process is good for removing dead stuff of the rock along with a bit of the rock. It does nothing in the way of cycling/curing the rock. If I understood correctly this was the only rock in the tank.

I would surmise that your tank did not cycle until live stock was added. As a result the livestock went through all the ammonia and did them in since there was not sufficient bacteria to breakdown the ammonia. just my 2 cents.

 

[gone fishin]

Tank cycled 16 days before we added those crabs on February 8th, another 4 days, before a fish was added on February 12th.

The chemi-pure was rinsed out as per directions until the water was clear again.

I will assume the tank sat for 16 days without an ammonia source to cycle the tank until the livestock was added then ammonia became present.

 

[sde1500]

I'm going with everyone else here. You didn't let the cycle finish. My tank has been running a bit longer than yours and you put more into it than I have at this time.

 

[CStrickland]

I agree that the initial cycle was not complete. I don't think it's really got anything to do with the number of days per se. Rather, it's a matter of culturing enough bacteria to consume the waste and uneaten food from the fish before you put in a fish. That can take anywhere from a few days to a month or more depending on a million variables.

The rock treatment killed all the bacteria off the rocks. If there was any in the "live sand" that's all you had when you started stocking. Live sand is notoriously unpredictable, it can be devoid of any bacteria if it's poorly handled or old. The presence of nitrite suggests that your tank wasn't ready. That likely harmed the fish and snails, then something put them over the edge and they died. A cycled tank doesn't have nitrites, and they follow right behind toxic ammonia.

It might have been something you did that day; or it might have been a starved snail from the first batch rotted and spiked the ammonia which was mostly converted to nitrite by the time you tested the water.

Moving forward, there's a thread called "SETTING UP" with a red arrow at the top of the list of threads in this forum. It's full of basic info on how to set up a tank for maximum success. If you can read through some of those links before you restock the tank, you'll likely have a much better experience the second time around.
Good luck, and welcome back!

 

[ChaseNet]

Thanks for the info thus far.

Only the two fish and the urchin died. Currently 2 turbo snails, cleaner shrimp, and all the small snails and crabs are still alive. As is the two corals, though they haven't been opening the last couple days so I am guessing they aren't happy.

 

[username in use]

I would start doing large water changes (maybe 25%) every other or third day until things settle down. That should keep the corals and clean up crew alive.

 

[CarrieB]

Not an expert, but seems like the nitrite indicates that the rock is either still cycling or cycling again because of the increase in the bio load.

 

[donut0079]

I would continue to test the tank. You should see the ammonia and nitrite drop back to zero. There may also be a rose in nitrates. Once you see that you could add livestock slowly. If you detect ammonia you are going too fast. You here people refer to cycling but in truth that is just the beginning. Your tank is going to continue to grow nitrifying bacteria for a long time after the cycle is complete. If you out pace that growth with your increase in bio load ammonia which is deadly to fish is the result. Your cleanup crew will most likely be fine and star polyps are very hardy so they may be fine too. I can vouch for that filter being sufficient as I use a very similar one. Just don't lose confidence and be patient.

 

[ChaseNet]

Ok, water changes every couple of days to keep whats left alive, then no new fish until nitrite levels hit zero, thus the old cycle (possibly new cycle) ends.

 

[ChaseNet]

I can vouch for that filter being sufficient as I use a very similar one. Just don't lose confidence and be patient.

Which filter? The media basket with the Chemi-Pure? or the crappy *** biocube protein skimmer? Cause I took the protein skimmer out today. When I had my 72g bow, the large protein skimmer in it, bubbled and bubbled and I ended up with a sludge in the top. This little protein skimmer bubbles a little and just ends up with water in the top. I have tried over and over and over again to set the air flow to a point of perfection, but I end up with the same old crappy results, so out it came.

 

[username in use]

I'd call it the new cycle. Just pretend that this is day one. Assume you won't add any fish for six weeks. ��

 

[CStrickland]

Also, some of the corals that are sold as yellow polyps contain palytoxin. You'll want to be teaching your kid appropriate safety precautions when she helps with the tank. And be careful about stuff like pulling the rock out of the water and bashing it with a hammer, they can squirt in your eye and put you in the ER.

 

[donut0079]

Which filter? The media basket with the Chemi-Pure? or the crappy *** biocube protein skimmer? Cause I took the protein skimmer out today. When I had my 72g bow, the large protein skimmer in it, bubbled and bubbled and I ended up with a sludge in the top. This little protein skimmer bubbles a little and just ends up with water in the top. I have tried over and over and over again to set the air flow to a point of perfection, but I end up with the same old crappy results, so out it came.

I'm using a media basket with chemi pure elite, filter floss, and purigen. I have a tunze 9001 for a skimmer but I question its efficiency since it is very water level dependent. I don't see nitrates at all and parameters are real stable. Be careful not to ignore flow in the tank. That was the key for me when I added an MP10 I saw a cloud of detritus come off the rocks and the tank has been great ever since.