In-line UV Sterizlier Questions?

[troubadour11]

I was in another users thread recently where I posted some questions on UV sterilizer plumbing locations during the discussion. So, in order to avoid hi-jacking that thread from the OP, I wanted to migrate my remaining questions to it's own spot.

I'm convinced to add a UV unit into my 90 gallon system I'm currently in the process of building/plumbing. General tank design: multi-chamber sump under my stand (DT drain area > skimmer > fuge > return). Based off head-height only, my submersible pump should be giving me a flow rate of about 550-650 gph. I will be using 2 powerheads to generate the remaining necessary flow for a full reef set up.

Now that you have some background on what I'm attempting, onto the questions! :spin1: I was able to get my hands on an Aqua Ultraviolet 15 Watt Advantage 2000+ In-Line UV Sterilizer for a great price.

- In general, do you believe this unit will be powerful enough and beneficial for a 90 gallon reef tank? Or will I be wasting energy with not much benefits and should step up to a larger wattage?

- I've seen it recommended to run a UV unit at 10-20x the wattage for the best results. Which for my unit would be around 300 gph or under at 15 watts. In your opinion, can I run this unit on my return line at the estimated 600ish gph that will be running through my main return pump and still get useful sterilizing benefits, or should I really attempt to get the gph down closer to that 10-20 x wattage number? And IF running it on my main return pump would be more of a waste then a benefit at that flow rate, any ideas how to run it at 300ish gph but tied into my main return line at a higher flow rate? Is something like that possible?

- How long should a UV unit run... 24/7? Intermittently (6 on, 6 off, 6 on, 6 off)?

Sorry for the lengthy 1st post, I just wanted to make sure you had enough info right off the bat I guess. Thanks :thumbsup:

 

[swcc]

go to aqua uv for their flow rating for your uv.The have a chart for target flow just navigate to the uv you have. Install a ball valve after the return pump and beore the uv so you can dial in flow. their 15 watt should be fine for your tank. running the uv time wise is up to you. I keep mine on all the time but many might just run them at night or couple days a week. Oh flow in the neighborhood of three hundred gal per hour is probably going to prove better than six hundred anyways.. do you know what skimmer you ar going to use?

 

[troubadour11]

So I checked out their flow chart on aquauv.com. I hadn't come across that yet. Lots more info then the general specs I had seen. Thanks for pointing me to it. According to their chart, for a reef tank I should target 466-700 gph for my unit. Any longer exposure time will kill plantonic food for the reef according to aquauv.

So that's about perfect since I'll be within that range with my main return pump based off the gph estimate I had.

For my skimmer I'll be running a Bubble-Magus NAC6. I haven't used one yet, but it looks like it should be able to handle a 90 gallon system.


Posted from ReefCentral.com App for Android

 

[billsreef]

Keep in mind, if planktonic food can get through alive, so can any parasites. So it really depends on what purpose your using the UV.

 

[swcc]

So I checked out their flow chart on aquauv.com. I hadn't come across that yet. Lots more info then the general specs I had seen. Thanks for pointing me to it. According to their chart, for a reef tank I should target 466-700 gph for my unit. Any longer exposure time will kill plantonic food for the reef according to aquauv.

So that's about perfect since I'll be within that range with my main return pump based off the gph estimate I had.

For my skimmer I'll be running a Bubble-Magus NAC6. I haven't used one yet, but it looks like it should be able to handle a 90 gallon system.


Posted from ReefCentral.com App for Android

Well 466 gph is about double or more what the skimmer can uptake. I would not run your flow any higher than that so set up the system and shoot for about that amount of flow. go any higher and skimming will suffer.

 

[troubadour11]

swcc: How do you know what ideal flow rate is that the skimmer can uptake to be running at optimal performance? Is it just based off of the pump running in the base of the skimmer? (I'd like to check those numbers since I'm trying to optimize the sump area for optimal performance of the equipment I'll be running)

The main return pump that I have is a Rio Hyperflow #12HF. According to their installation instructions pdf (http://www.riopump.net/installation folder/hyperflow instruction.pdf) on their site, at around 4' head height (I might be a little taller then that which would be good), I should be around 550-600 gph. But I can install a flow control valve that comes with it (or a ball valve in the return line). It looks like, from that pdf, as long as I don't reduce the flow more then 15% it won't harm the pump or anything. That should put me pretty close to the 466 gph for the UV and not reduce efficiency on my skimmer as you mentioned.

Billsreef: my initial thought on running the UV unit was to help with fish / animal health. I thought by running a fuge w/ macro algae, that would aid in keeping nuisance algae down and help keep the water clear in general. And the UV unit would then aid more in the health of the tank rather then only to keep the water clear.

- Is running it at a slower gph then aquauv's recommended 466 in order to try help control parasites ideal for a mixed reef system?
- By running it slower do I loose anything beneficial to maintaining a stable reef system?
- Or as long as I am feeding the inhabitants correctly, the loss by running the UV at a lower gph is negligible?
- Will running it slower cause me to have to spot feed more or add more supplements for corals?

The next step down in the Rio pumps would put me at about 275-300 gph. That would be ideal then for the skimmer update and the UV unit. But would that be to slow for overall filtration on a 90 DT. I will be using 2 powerheads alternating to generate the high flow rate and water movement in the DT for SPS and other corals. I'm expecting to have about a 4" sand bed in the display along with live rock.

Thanks again for the info and expertise. It's very much appreciated.

Thoughts or suggestions from experience? :fun4:

 

[billsreef]

For disease control the slower rates are better, though they will destroy planktonic life as well as disease. That said, IME, UV's are not overly effective for such control in a single tank set up such as your doing, and any effects on water chemistry are minimal. If your looking for positive effects on water quality, adding a little ozone to the skimmer will much for increasing the water quality and clarity. If your looking for disease control, a good quarantine set up and rigorous quarantine of livestock will do far more than any in tank disease control ever conceived...i.e. "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"

 

[EnderG60]

If you are using it for algea control then youre fine.

If you want it for disease control then you want a much larger UV and much slower flow rate.

I pretty much dont bother using anything under a 40w running at 300gph. that will kill ich, and if its not killing ich its not really worth bothering with IMO.

 

[troubadour11]

Well, thanks for all the info and experience!

I think I'll continue the build with the current pieces I have. I was debating stepping down to the smaller pump to lower the gph, but it doesn't sound like that would give me a big additional advantage on the UV side since it's recommended to step up the wattage. And I don't really have the ability to step up to a larger UV unit right now.

Maybe I'll plan/try a larger UV at a slower gph for parasite control if I ever upgrade from this 90 if I upgrade the house. But for now... throttling back my current pump slightly to get it down to 450-500 gph seems like it will work and still have everything humming along at close to optimal performance.

Thanks again and feel free to call anything else out as I'm open to all suggestions since I'm still working on piecing it all together dry.

 

[swcc]

swcc: How do you know what ideal flow rate is that the skimmer can uptake to be running at optimal performance? Is it just based off of the pump running in the base of the skimmer? (I'd like to check those numbers since I'm trying to optimize the sump area for optimal performance of the equipment I'll be running)

The main return pump that I have is a Rio Hyperflow #12HF. According to their installation instructions pdf (http://www.riopump.net/installation folder/hyperflow instruction.pdf) on their site, at around 4' head height (I might be a little taller then that which would be good), I should be around 550-600 gph. But I can install a flow control valve that comes with it (or a ball valve in the return line). It looks like, from that pdf, as long as I don't reduce the flow more then 15% it won't harm the pump or anything. That should put me pretty close to the 466 gph for the UV and not reduce efficiency on my skimmer as you mentioned.

Billsreef: my initial thought on running the UV unit was to help with fish / animal health. I thought by running a fuge w/ macro algae, that would aid in keeping nuisance algae down and help keep the water clear in general. And the UV unit would then aid more in the health of the tank rather then only to keep the water clear.

- Is running it at a slower gph then aquauv's recommended 466 in order to try help control parasites ideal for a mixed reef system?
- By running it slower do I loose anything beneficial to maintaining a stable reef system?
- Or as long as I am feeding the inhabitants correctly, the loss by running the UV at a lower gph is negligible?
- Will running it slower cause me to have to spot feed more or add more supplements for corals?

The next step down in the Rio pumps would put me at about 275-300 gph. That would be ideal then for the skimmer update and the UV unit. But would that be to slow for overall filtration on a 90 DT. I will be using 2 powerheads alternating to generate the high flow rate and water movement in the DT for SPS and other corals. I'm expecting to have about a 4" sand bed in the display along with live rock.

Thanks again for the info and expertise. It's very much appreciated.

Thoughts or suggestions from experience? :fun4:

on the skimmer... yeah the pump will flow about 200gph or so water. Ideal sump flow should actually be less than the pumps water flow, but, it is what it is. On skimming... put some organics in a container and a skimmer will continue to circulate and remove organics for a couple hours. Now the idea here with fitration is to have the skimmer clean the tank water and the return send back clean water...if the sump is pushing tank water past the skimmer this is very inefficient and the water returning is almost as dirty as the tank's. See, your tank organics concentrate towards the surface, so, in effect organics concentrate up, you run too powerful return and most of the organics sent to the sump then blow by the skimmer back to the display to then have to concentrate once again(or fuel bacteria and algae). So, really, one will get best results when their sump flow allows the skimmer to recirculate the sump water a couple times at least. In effect, you end up with a low flow return and your skimmer is pulling more organics out per gallon of water taken in from the display.. Thus, cleaner water is sent to the display. In all actuality, your skimmer could work beautifully with only about 100 to 150 gph through the sump. More flow is just a waste. Now the UV can also flow this low as well so the sump will really clean up the water it sends to the system. Yes it is not 'phyto friendly' but do you want to use your sump as an effective filtration system or as a system that cleans the water a little and leaves a lot behind.
Phyto will develop still in the display.. it just will not survive going through your filtration(which is just fine anyways as coral will still have access).
Oh phyto makes great phosphate transport to be exported by skimming.
I have a mixed reef system...keep my tank ULN and all my corals and fish thrive. The water is so clear that were it not for the shimmer from my MH you would think the tank was devoid of water. I do feed about once a week to ten days some coral frenzy(Turn off return and skimmer, feed and back on about three hours later). IMO the best way to run any and all reef systems is ULN and feed back vs trying to balance natural food sources and battle nuisance algae, ick, etc.. from keeping an eutrophic system. Not to mention the water clarity differences between the two. My success for 25 years now has been with only running a big skimmer and good UV.

 

[troubadour11]

Thanks for all the good info from everyone! Having thought about it a bit more. Maybe I'll run into my LFS this weekend and see if I can swap out my pump for one with a bit slower gph. I bet they'll work some store credit out for the difference or something since it's unused in it's original packaging from them still.

It sounds like that could be a good idea to slow it down a little if I can. It sounds like that will optimize my skimmer and UV a little more. And a high flow rate through the sump isn't a huge deal since I'll be running to powerheads to generate plenty of flow within the DT.

 

[Danny_B]

I can tell you you wont get close to the ratings on the box. I have a 10HF @ 4' and the box says 360gph...i get 240gph.

 

[swcc]

I would actually stich with the size pump you got and use the ball valve to dial it in. timimg the output to fill a gallon pitcher to get your flow dialed in. the uv will restrict flow and so will any bends as well as outlet pieces. best to be a little big andhave adjustability vs too small maxed out and not happy with the lack of flow.

 

[troubadour11]

Well, I didn't make it into the fish store last weekend. The wife ended up dragging me out to do some wine tasting up the coast! :beer:

After reading what Danny_B gets with the next step down, I was thinking the same thing swcc. I bet with the UV, any unions, bends, diameter of piping, etc. that I will be able to dial it in pretty close to a good flow rate.

Now that I'm convinced I've pieced together the right parts to have everything running pretty efficiently with the UV, skimmer, and return pump. Any thoughts or suggestions on the actual pipe set up? Currently I have an overflow kit with the 1.25" or 1.5" durso style stand pipe that will go into the 1" bulkhead. And a 3/4" return pipe that will connect to a 3/4" bulkhead.

- On the return, I currently have a 90 elbow (w/ anti-siphone hole) at the top that will connect to a dual nozzle locline. I was thinking about T-ing or Y-ing off the 3/4" return instead of the 90 and adding a second dual nozzle lockline. That way I could angle 1 return, split 4 ways, over opposite sides of the overflow box and down the back glass of the tank to try and target any dead flow spots. Would that work well and be a useful design change? I have 2*1600 gph powerheads I'll be dialing in through a wave maker for the main flow across the tank.

- Under the tank I figured a 1.25" or 1.5" pvc on the drain (match the diameter of the standpipe). Do I need any valves on this line before draining into the sump? Run the drain line into the sump below the water level to help with noise, correct?

- Then off the return pump... The UV unit has 3/4" barbed fittings on it's in/out. Is there any reason to run 1" pipe instead of 3/4" between the pump, uv, and 3/4" return bulkhead before the above scenario in the overflow box? I was thinking to connect a short section of flexible hose to the pump and then attach that to the next component to attempt to quiet any vibration onto the pipe system from the pump and make pump removal for any servicing easier. Recommendations on this section... all flexible connections? just a flexible from pump to valve? then rigid from valve > UV and UV > bulkhead? Can rigid piping connect to the 3/4" barbs on the UV? Would the valve go after UV just before the bulkhead or next to the pump?

Sorry for being so wordy and the book of questions. But thanks again for all the help! So much appreciated! :bounce3: Every question gets me that much closer to getting h2o in it! :bounce3:

 

[swcc]

plumbing wise...keep it simple. 3/4 is fine and whatever the drain is...Your not trying to maximize you gph, you just need to set it up so it does not leak and you can tune the flow in.

 

[ehaleyjr18]

I have the same sterilizer, but my flow rate on supply is much greater than you posted. When I fired everything up it exploded the casing. I sealed it together and placed it on my return. I flow around 2400 GPH.

 

[troubadour11]

I definitely won't be running the flow at anywhere close to 2400 gph. I'll be using the 2 powerheads to generate the flow needed in the DT.

So I'm going to try and slow down the pump a bit with a valve before the UV unit. I'm going to shoot for 200-400 gph. I'll have to see where I can get it to settle once I get it all plumbed together and run a few tests.

 

[michaelkittrell]

I have mine plumbed in with a pair of ball valves (one on the main, one a branch that goes to the UV sterilizer). That way I can control flow rate if I ever need to.

====()==========
__=__________=
__==()==(UV)==

(underscores are place holders, = are pipe, () is a valve (uv) is my uv unit.

Honestly... never adjusted it, both valves are full open and my fish have always been disease free. Also, I put my uv on the return... so that the pods don't have to go through it on their way into the display. Not sure if it makes a difference, but it made sense to me.