in need of a pump
- Thread starter Doc's69
- Start date
manderx
New member
i have my panworld sitting here doing nothing at the moment, but it's nowhere near big enough to drive even a single beckett (and i do plan on using it on the 3x3 anyway). you're gonna need a *big* pump to do both, make sure you don't skimp on it. you're going to want something like at least an iwaki 70 or preferably even a 100 (or equivalents of course) to do both injectors right. unless you are doing a huge tank and need to process alot of gallons per hour, i wouldn't actually feel like you had to drive both injectors even. unless you go huge on the pump, it'll almost certainly run better with just one of them getting all the pressure rather than spreading it out too thin between the two. the *vast* majority of becketts that i've seen in person were being underdriven (not enough pressure) in my opinion. when you get enough pressure to hit the sweetspot, "it's like magic, but real". the whole body fills with shaving cream. the problem is, it's kinda expensive to hit that pressure, so you might have to compromise with a smaller pump that just does good enough. big pumps = big power bills.
manderx
New member
they say that to not scare people away by telling them are going to want a 350+ watt pump to run 2 injectors properly. 1 injector running at full speed will clean deeper and do a better overall job than 2 injectors driven by the same pump in most cases. each tank is different though, and if you have a big tank and aren't trying to skim the living daylights out of it, you might want to dilute the pressure to a second injector just to process more gallons per hour even though it won't get each gallon quite as clean.
manderx
New member
it's not really doing much, took more than a week to fill ~1 inch of non-stinking light-colored stuff in the bottom of a salt bucket. i think it's just because it's so oversized for my current system that it can't build up the ciritical mass of foam head it needs to get in gear. i should have the bigger tank started with alot more fish and a sandbed (big gunk producer) in the next month or two or three. kinda funny that i have at least twice the amount of water feeding into my skimmer that i have returning to the displays.
manderx
New member
yeah. i (currently) think all the microscopic life in the sandbed is good for the tank. everyone has commented on how skimmer production drops when you take sand out, which i see as critters in the sand processing unskimmable compounds into skimmable compounds. assuming that the inputs are the same, more gunk out = less remaining gunk in tank. some people i think see this backwards, as 'my skimmer is making less so my barebottom tank must be cleaner than your sandbed tank'.
when i moved my 3 tanks, before i could get them hooked together and skimmed, the 2 without sand had the most problems, but the one with sand (and the higher bioload too) looked great, better than usual actually (probably from the waterchange as part of the move since i didn't bring every drop of old water with me). one of the barebottom tanks (the frag tank) flat out crashed, and the 50 was barely starting to look hazey and like it was about to crash when i got the now-down-to-2 tanks plumbed together (and the skimmer running, which was obviously a huge part too). i think without that sandbed (bacteria within) to stabilize the whole system, my losses would have been *far* greater, even with a $1700 skimmer.
i've heard (and witnessed) anecdotal evidence of how power outages on tanks with sand crash much faster, presumably from increased oxygen consumption from the sandbed than bb tanks. while crashing faster is obviously a bad thing (that can be planned for with a battery backup or something), i do really like the notion of increased metabolic processes in the tank that cause the increased O2 consumption. to me that means that nutrients are being bound up, converted and reconverted faster (nutrient scavaging, which is the whole reason why water in the reef is so clean, and similarly soil in the rain forest is completely devoid of nutrients). plus all these sorts of microrganisms are probably becoming a significant part of the 'circle of poo'.
the biggest reason i took the sand out before was because i didn't like how my powerheads blew it around. but i'm gonna get those ecotechs, which don't appear to punch a high velocity jet of water through the tank, so it shouldn't blow sand around as much if i tune them right. i hope to have 4 of them on low pulsing on a wavemaker. that should get the whole water mass moving without needing high velocity. though ideally i'd run a huge fuge remote with my sandbed, and run the display barebottom with the ecotechs turned up to just under the point of spraying water out of the tank (and frags *extremely* well secured).
when i moved my 3 tanks, before i could get them hooked together and skimmed, the 2 without sand had the most problems, but the one with sand (and the higher bioload too) looked great, better than usual actually (probably from the waterchange as part of the move since i didn't bring every drop of old water with me). one of the barebottom tanks (the frag tank) flat out crashed, and the 50 was barely starting to look hazey and like it was about to crash when i got the now-down-to-2 tanks plumbed together (and the skimmer running, which was obviously a huge part too). i think without that sandbed (bacteria within) to stabilize the whole system, my losses would have been *far* greater, even with a $1700 skimmer.
i've heard (and witnessed) anecdotal evidence of how power outages on tanks with sand crash much faster, presumably from increased oxygen consumption from the sandbed than bb tanks. while crashing faster is obviously a bad thing (that can be planned for with a battery backup or something), i do really like the notion of increased metabolic processes in the tank that cause the increased O2 consumption. to me that means that nutrients are being bound up, converted and reconverted faster (nutrient scavaging, which is the whole reason why water in the reef is so clean, and similarly soil in the rain forest is completely devoid of nutrients). plus all these sorts of microrganisms are probably becoming a significant part of the 'circle of poo'.
the biggest reason i took the sand out before was because i didn't like how my powerheads blew it around. but i'm gonna get those ecotechs, which don't appear to punch a high velocity jet of water through the tank, so it shouldn't blow sand around as much if i tune them right. i hope to have 4 of them on low pulsing on a wavemaker. that should get the whole water mass moving without needing high velocity. though ideally i'd run a huge fuge remote with my sandbed, and run the display barebottom with the ecotechs turned up to just under the point of spraying water out of the tank (and frags *extremely* well secured).
CaptainDave
New member
nice.
Highlander
outa salt 8-(
THis might work for your application:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=783408
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=783408
manderx
New member
yup, that's what i'm talking about. 39' of head, and if the wattage is accurate it looks to be significantly more efficient than the iwaki70.
though, no offense to the seller, since it's not local i'd say pay the extra 50 for a new one for the warrenty and since you gotta deal with shipping anyway and can't check it out first.
though, no offense to the seller, since it's not local i'd say pay the extra 50 for a new one for the warrenty and since you gotta deal with shipping anyway and can't check it out first.
Highlander
outa salt 8-(
No offense taken.
That's why I posted this as a local sale.
Just thought it would fit the need here.
That's why I posted this as a local sale.
Just thought it would fit the need here.
Doc's69
New member
Thanks everyone, I looked at these pumps but hadn't heard a lot about them, currently I have a Iwaki 70 to run my return, so how big of a strain on my power bill will there be with both? I have also read about another company that the lead engineer left Iwaki and went to another company that makes pretty good pumps. Any ideas?
CaptainDave
New member
That's the PanWorld/Blueline that's posted above. Most people love them.
Highlander
outa salt 8-(
The "other company" is Blueline AKA Panworld.
manderx
New member
watts * hours per month / 1000 * cost_per_kilowatthour
here in bburg we pay ~5 cents a KWH, so a 300w pump running 24/7 would cost $10.80 per month. though you really need to look at the pump curve since the power consumed changes with flow. it might vary by 50% or more over the range of flow. no clue if the stated wattage is the low end, high end, or average.
what *exactly* are you going to use the 70 for in your return application? might be better to use that one for the skimmer and then find another lower wattage pump pump since you probably don't need as much pressure for a return pump.
yeah, the panworld is a good line of mag-coupled pumps, but i like to look at the gen-x stuff too these days. if the numbers on paper are accurate within certain model ranges the gen-x external pumps are cheaper, push more water, and use less electricity to do it. but they don't appear to be quite as well made (the look and feel to them make them seem like they were made in the 60's), and i don't think they have them in the larger sizes. if you want something that is a step 'better' than the panworld, you would pick a direct drive pump (where the motor is directly tied to the impeller rather than having magnets linking them together through a seal-less solid wall). look at the pumps made by sequence. if installed correctly (correct plumbing size) they are top-of-the-world in efficiency. but with that efficiency comes higher cost, and having to worry about a leaky seal. which isn't really a problem anymore now that they are making them specifically for reeftanks nowadays.
here in bburg we pay ~5 cents a KWH, so a 300w pump running 24/7 would cost $10.80 per month. though you really need to look at the pump curve since the power consumed changes with flow. it might vary by 50% or more over the range of flow. no clue if the stated wattage is the low end, high end, or average.
what *exactly* are you going to use the 70 for in your return application? might be better to use that one for the skimmer and then find another lower wattage pump pump since you probably don't need as much pressure for a return pump.
yeah, the panworld is a good line of mag-coupled pumps, but i like to look at the gen-x stuff too these days. if the numbers on paper are accurate within certain model ranges the gen-x external pumps are cheaper, push more water, and use less electricity to do it. but they don't appear to be quite as well made (the look and feel to them make them seem like they were made in the 60's), and i don't think they have them in the larger sizes. if you want something that is a step 'better' than the panworld, you would pick a direct drive pump (where the motor is directly tied to the impeller rather than having magnets linking them together through a seal-less solid wall). look at the pumps made by sequence. if installed correctly (correct plumbing size) they are top-of-the-world in efficiency. but with that efficiency comes higher cost, and having to worry about a leaky seal. which isn't really a problem anymore now that they are making them specifically for reeftanks nowadays.
Last edited:
Doc's69
New member
Okay,the 70 Iwaki will be pushing water through my whole system, we plan to plumb all my tanks together this weekend. Sunday to be exact, anyone who wants to come by and help, your more than welcome Matt do you think I could borrow your pump until sometime next week if I have to order something? I plan on moving my 55 over to another wall and under my 75 then put a sump in (the one from mobort) and the tank I got from you for a frag tank. I know I will need more equipment but think I can make it work now and make these dreaded water changes easier as well as a more stable system.
Matt do you think I could borrow your pump until sometime next week if I have to order something? I plan on moving my 55 over to another wall and under my 75 then put a sump in (the one from mobort) and the tank I got from you for a frag tank. I know I will need more equipment but think I can make it work now and make these dreaded water changes easier as well as a more stable system.
