Initial planning stages for tank and fish room

[Bilk]

thats the one module i need to get (the salinity module). Have you had a chance to run it yet? If so, are you happy with its performance?

It's good as a gauge but I wouldn't rely solely on it. They're difficult to calibrate accurately and well, it drove me nuts comparing the reading to the readings from other methods. I just knew if things were stable by monitoring the reading and not the actual number.

I'm including it on the new tank since I have it, but I could live without it really.

 

[dave.m]

Would the DSB be enough to overcome an mini cycle?

OK, sorry, I wasn't quite following you at first. So you want your new tank to be bare bottomed but you want to set up a remote deep sand bed in advance of putting rock in your display tank. The thing with a DSB is that it needs constant feeding, and will only partially ameliorate the effects of adding new live rock at a later date. No live rock that has to be shipped can claim to not need curing as there is always some die-off en route. That means a big spike in pollutants at first if you introduce that rock directly to your display tank. You can do this, of course, but you wouldn't want to have any fish or inverts in there until your ammonia and nitrite levels had settled down after a few weeks.

Dave.M

 

[Bilk]

OK, sorry, I wasn't quite following you at first. So you want your new tank to be bare bottomed but you want to set up a remote deep sand bed in advance of putting rock in your display tank. The thing with a DSB is that it needs constant feeding, and will only partially ameliorate the effects of adding new live rock at a later date. No live rock that has to be shipped can claim to not need curing as there is always some die-off en route. That means a big spike in pollutants at first if you introduce that rock directly to your display tank. You can do this, of course, but you wouldn't want to have any fish or inverts in there until your ammonia and nitrite levels had settled down after a few weeks.

Dave.M

LOL well you almost have my intent correct. I will have a substrate in the new tank and a RDSB in the second sump.

So in your opinion, it's a bad idea to start the tank with new sand, new RDSB in sump and the existing rock I currently have and then at a later date - say a few weeks - add more rock to my liking, all while having the current livestock in there?

 

[sfsuphysics]

That's a neat little wire raceway you got around your electronics, mind sharing some info on what it is?

 

[Bilk]

That's a neat little wire raceway you got around your electronics, mind sharing some info on what it is?

Economical Wiring Duct I got the 1.2"x1.4". Just screw, glue it or tape it to a surface and race away I have to put the covers on when I'm 100% positive I have everything in there :crazy1: Hopefully that's soon. I've tried cable ties and pretty much everything else. Figured I'd give this a try after seeing others here use it. It's nice to have the ability to pop the wire out thru the teeth just where you need it to be.

 

[Bilk]

Nice build. I like how you incorporated the iPad to it. What were you going to use that for? the Apex I'm guessing but I'm itching to know if theres another reason. Anyway, great build and i'll be looking for updates!

Hey and thanks Peter. Yup, easier on the eyes for interfacing with the Apex. I also have an app for recording tank parameters and tests. Guess I can also get quick references from here as well

 

[dave.m]

So in your opinion, it's a bad idea to start the tank with new sand, new RDSB in sump and the existing rock I currently have and then at a later date - say a few weeks - add more rock to my liking, all while having the current livestock in there?

There is nothing wrong with what you are proposing. I just don't think you can bang newly shipped rock into an existing set-up expecting no significant rise in water pollutants. Having first established a DSB and some existing live rocks will establish a bit of a biological filter, but that filter cannot be expected to make later additions of rock invisible as regards pollutant levels.

You can, however, use some of the new liquid bacterial mixes at the time of adding the new rock to help lessen the time required it acclimate the new rock to your tank. I have successfully used Instant Ocean's Bio Spira, but there are other equally effective products that do the same sort of thing.

Dave.M

 

[Bilk]

Well I've finally decided on a game plan. It's actually not the original direction I was going, but I have based it on two factors. 1. It's what I had my better success with in the past and 2. After admiring this system and tank and the results achieved, I was convinced I should again go with a DSB in the tank.

The few things I know I do not want to do:

• dose endless products
• constantly monitor water parameters for those products
• utilize media such as GFO or pellets that also need to be monitored and serviced
• find the right balance for carbon dosing and then find it needs to be tweaked often
  

I know there are plenty of arguments against an in-tank DSB, but I've had good success with one in the past. I also feel it's a more "natural" way to develop a "system" than the aforementioned regimen. They're all fine and many have success with them. However I'd rather have less input and fiddling to do in keeping a thriving system running. Sometimes life gets hectic and missing doses or not having the time to change media when it's expired, isn't something I want to worry about. I feel a DSB allows for the system to develop naturally and reach it's own balance. I also believe it has the ability to better cope with changes such as additions to the tank bioload.

So I'll be ordering enough Tropic Eden Aragasnow for a 4" in-tank DSB. This will go in the tank with a few bags of the same media in live sand. I'll also add some cultures of pods and critters to seed the bed and live rock and let it do it's thing for a month or so. Then I'll take some tests and go from there. After that, the plan is to again employ a good cuc and let them do the work nature intended for them to do.

In the past, my tank maintenance was blowing off the silt and detritus from the rocks every few weeks - wait an hour or so, while having a beer - and then do a modest water change. My corals all looked healthy then. The only difference now will be more frequent water changes utilizing a Genesis Renew.

The one thing with this plan that I didn't account for is viewing the sand bed from the front viewing panel, but I guess I can live with that. Had I anticipated doing this, I would probably have designed things a bit differently and gone with a deeper tank, but that's water under the tank now. Maybe that's the future upgrade

 

[dave.m]

If I may, I would suggest some form of back-up in case of power failure. It is sitting still for too long with no water movement that kills DSBs. In case of power failure you may want to have some sort of emergency plan.

Dave.M

 

[Bilk]

If I may, I would suggest some form of back-up in case of power failure. It is sitting still for too long with no water movement that kills DSBs. In case of power failure you may want to have some sort of emergency plan.

Dave.M

I have a backup generator. I'm also looking into solar panels for my building. If the State of NY has incentives for that, I may very well do it. My roof is five stories above grade, has full southern exposure and a 4/12 pitch. It's also a metal deck. But yes, there's a gas fired generator, but not for the whole building. I ran the 20amp line for the fish room from that leg of the service.

I have to say, since moving to Brooklyn almost 7 years ago, there has never been an outage and mainly because the power lines are below grade. I'm not saying it can't happen, but it would have to be a much wider outage and probably a station outage, for me to lose power. Lights blinked once during Sandy. Solar supply and backup is what I would want. However it may be cost prohibitive. But I will be looking into it

So what about the rest of the plan? I had not seen Paolo's tank prior to him posting in the DSB thread just below my post. He has had amazing results and I believe you commented on that. I chatted with him a bit and at his suggestion, I ordered Shimek's book. Should be here today and provide a refresher of sorts.

My last relatively large system ran a Jaubert (Monaco) plenum. It solved the many issues I was having with nutrient buildup. Corals thrived in that tank after the change over. I'm willing to give a DSB another go. Just absent the plenum, which seems to have been considered a non-functioning part of the equation. Any thoughts on plenum vs not having one?

Thanks for the input

 

[dave.m]

I have read much on but not implemented a Jaubert-style plenum system. It seems to be prone to solidifying without manual intervention. That's not my idea of low maintenance. DSBs on the other hand have a lot of successful history as long as they remain undisturbed. I have only run up to 3" deep, but never had a problem with them.

Dave.M

 

[Bilk]

Everything but the mixing station is ready to go live. That I can work on while the tank and new DSB are cycling and seeding. I should receive the sand, which is Bahama Oolitic, this week sometime. I've also ordered a few cultures of pods to seed the sand bed and rock. Ah, I need to order LR. I'll do that today

Here's the control panel 99.9% complete. Need two more grommets for the transformers for the Tunze 6105s.

Man I'm happy that's done. :dance:


Two pics of the placement of the Sea Sweeps with the Tunzes.

Right now these are all I am going with in terms of water movement. If need be, I'll add two Vortechs down the road, though I'm hoping these will be enough.

I drilled and installed small bulkheads for two part dosing and a few extra in case I want to add something else to the mix.

Once everything is up and running I'll do a video of the engine room to show how things work.

I'm not sure on the background. The plexi I have is blue, but the overflow is black. Not sure I like that look and may paint it black so the overflow and powerheads become less visible. Guess I'll do over the next day or so and see which I like best.

Now I have to get everything programmed on the Apex :bigeyes:

Oh, almost forgot. RO is in it's final location and operational. I still need to plumb it to the mixing station and I think I'll put power closer with a wall switch for it.

You know, posting here helps me keep track of what still needs to be done LOL Yeah I know. I still didn't paint the floor. :uhoh3:

 

[owenspackman]

the sea sweeps with the tunes look awesome!!

are you applying a vinyl background or painting the back of the tank?

If so, may i suggest black?

 

[Bilk]

the sea sweeps with the tunes look awesome!!

are you applying a vinyl background or painting the back of the tank?

If so, may i suggest black?

I the tank builder to provide blue acrylic panels that I can apply to and remove from the exterior of the tank as needed. They're 1/4" and fit each side and the rear has holes cut for the bulkheads as well as the overflow. I did this so I can have the ability to view into the tank from any side when and if the need arrises. I will paint one side black and see which I like best. I don't want to mess with painting the tank.

 

[Bilk]

I just reinstalled the blue panels. There's no water in the tank. I'm thinking black LOL The Tunze, Loclines and overflow will mostly disappear into the background.

 

[Paolo Piccinell]

So, you finally found your way!!! :bounce3:
Your system seems perfect, can't wait to see it running.

I agree 100% with the following statement:

DSBs on the other hand have a lot of successful history as long as they remain undisturbed.

So carefully choose Your fish, invertebrates and crustaceans... as the wrong wrasse could kill your tank in a matter of weeks by sifting too much sand and polluting water.

A couple of sand sifting stars is good, shrimps are bad, as well as gobies and almost all wrasses (at least during the first 6 months).

 

[Bilk]

So, you finally found your way!!! :bounce3:
Your system seems perfect, can't wait to see it running.

I agree 100% with the following statement:



So carefully choose Your fish, invertebrates and crustaceans... as the wrong wrasse could kill your tank in a matter of weeks by sifting too much sand and polluting water.

A couple of sand sifting stars is good, shrimps are bad, as well as gobies and almost all wrasses (at least during the first 6 months).

Thanks Paolo. I hope I can have a measure of success as you have had in your beautiful tank. I'll be working on getting the sand bed populated.

My last DSB had lot's of life and it was very active with bristleworms, small starfish, amphipods and copepods.

 

[Paolo Piccinell]

It will surely be a success!!!

 

[sfsuphysics]

So I'll be ordering enough Tropic Eden Aragasnow for a 4" in-tank DSB.

Out of curiosity how much sand (pound wise) is needed to do that? I'm looking to a remote SB in a very large sump, but I'm shivering at how much sand I'll actually need.

I have a backup generator. I'm also looking into solar panels for my building.

Something to be aware of if you go with a grid connected system, that is you don't have banks of batteries and you use the electric company as your battery pack by turning your meter backwards, you will not be able to use the solar panels as a source of backup power should there be an outage, even during the day.

In order to adopt solar panels hooking to the grid all inverters (turns dc power on roof to AC power we use) have an auto-shut off if it senses there is no power from the street. This is said to protect workers from live lines should they be working on lines that are supposedly "dead". So power goes out, so does your ability to generate electricity. However if you go with a battery backup system (which virtually no one does unless they don't have electrical hook up in the first place) you'll be fine.

BTW, your electrical center is super snazzy.

 

[Bilk]

Out of curiosity how much sand (pound wise) is needed to do that? I'm looking to a remote SB in a very large sump, but I'm shivering at how much sand I'll actually need.


Something to be aware of if you go with a grid connected system, that is you don't have banks of batteries and you use the electric company as your battery pack by turning your meter backwards, you will not be able to use the solar panels as a source of backup power should there be an outage, even during the day.

In order to adopt solar panels hooking to the grid all inverters (turns dc power on roof to AC power we use) have an auto-shut off if it senses there is no power from the street. This is said to protect workers from live lines should they be working on lines that are supposedly "dead". So power goes out, so does your ability to generate electricity. However if you go with a battery backup system (which virtually no one does unless they don't have electrical hook up in the first place) you'll be fine.

BTW, your electrical center is super snazzy.

There's a calculator on the RC "Home Page" that can do the calculation of how much sand of a specific weight per cubic foot you will need. I needed over 400lbs of sand - some I ordered previously, which is Tropic Eden Miniflakes - too large for the DSB so this will go on top - and the remainder is Bahama Oolitic which is sugar fine. That will make up the bulk of the DSB at 3+ inches. The Tropic Eden will go on top and that's an additional 1.5".

Thanks for the info on the power storage. I've been looking into it and most of the companies want to sell you systems at reduced cost with the caveat they get to sell the unused portion of the power back to the local utility. That's not what I'm interested in. I want storage and the ability for me to sell the residual to the utility. I need to do more homework on this

Edit: Thanks for the props on the command center LOL Now that it's done, it seemed like nothing, but it did drive me a bit crazy