Internal Overflow question

[S2minute]

Hi Everyone!, So, i picked up this used 220. The owner had drilled four one inch holes near the top of the back spaced about one foot apart for drains. He also has a one inch hole drilled in the middle of the back for a return. Each hole has a uniseal. Now being that there are 4- 1" holes for drains i was thinking on ordering some premade black surface skimmers from here: http://www.aquariumoverflow.com/overflow-boxes/cat_3.html . With the lids. My question is, what size surface skimmer box should i be looking to get? Also, should i drill another 1" hole to so i can increase the return flow...or is that more than what i need. What would be the max return flow those 4 1" holes could handle? Thanks

 

[thejuggernaut]

Pictures?

Those overflows aren't long enough to account for a 3' spread for the drain lines. Also, if you have a return line too far down in the tank, when the pump shuts off, it will drain the tank to that level. Pictures would help to see exactly what you have

 

[S2minute]

Pictures?

OK, here's a pic The owner had 2 spray bars as part of the return, one for the top back the other for the bottom back. He also had a syphon break with an air line hooked up. he had two ball valves to adjust flow to the bottom and top spray bars but, they were INSIDE the tank. I was hoping to change that.

Those overflows aren't long enough to account for a 3' spread for the drain lines. Also, if you have a return line too far down in the tank, when the pump shuts off, it will drain the tank to that level. Pictures would help to see exactly what you have

 

[Gorgok]

I would re-drill the holes for some real bulkheads, to 1-1/2" personally (60mm holes).

I would use the <strike>2</strike> 3 on the left <strike>and add a 3rd in between them</strike> for a bean overflow, and add a glass weir that comes up to the hole on the right. Use that one, re-drilled, for the return.

The last hole can be left as is, if it fits a bulkhead already (whatever size it fits) and used to route in some powerheads to hide the cords (there was a picture of that done recently, its a great idea). Or plugged with a pvc plug into the bulkhead... Stick a rock in front of it in either case.

 

[S2minute]

I would re-drill the holes for some real bulkheads, to 1-1/2" personally (60mm holes).
Hey, thanks for the reply!, I have a hole drill kit but, i did not know you could redrill an existing hole. So just redrill the hole on the top right to 1.5 inches and leave the other 3 to the left as 1" holes? I'm not familiar with the bean overflow. Can you be more specific about a glass weir that comes up, i'm having trouble picturing that sorry . :hammer:

I would use the <strike>2</strike> 3 on the left <strike>and add a 3rd in between them</strike> for a bean overflow, and add a glass weir that comes up to the hole on the right. Use that one, re-drilled, for the return.

The last hole can be left as is, if it fits a bulkhead already (whatever size it fits) and used to route in some powerheads to hide the cords (there was a picture of that done recently, its a great idea). Or plugged with a pvc plug into the bulkhead... Stick a rock in front of it in either case.

 

[Gorgok]

Since glass hole saws dont have a pilot, it really doesn't matter if the glass being cut is a thin ring of full plug. You might have issues if the difference is really small, but 1" uniseals to 60mm holes should be something like 8mm on a side and doable. Having a guide keep the bit in place is important of course, and cooling the bit cant be done with just a dam and sitting water, but running water is fine.

If you can fit 1" bulkheads in the holes (it might be close with 1" uniseals) that would work too for the drains, but i'd prefer 1-1/2" at that size tank.

This is the beananimal drain system. 3 of the holes you have could be used, they don't have to be that close together by any means. The weir could be plastic if you can find one long enough, like in the picture. Though your existing 4th hole at the top should be external to the box, so having it stop short of that hole would be necessary. Making it out of glass is quite simple, just 2 long pieces and a tiny end cap.

Only 1 of the valves is necessary (on the siphon line), and i would omit the others and use a gate valve instead of ball valves. Also i would place it right above the sump, instead of behind the tank.

The whole drain plan/theory is written out here:
http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx

 

[S2minute]

Ha!, that's weird, i had just recently found that very article . That's just what i'll do . I noticed in that article the the 3 drain pipes terminate just below the surface of the sump. What if the sump is located in an adjacent room? Is it ok to plump the drains a horizontal distance to the sump Or, combine the drain pipes into a 2 or 3" pipe after the true unions and then route a single drain to the remote sump?? Also to make clear, the only hole i'm to resize is the 4th on top to the right?
Can you please to reference me to the post you mentioned about the person that used that 5th hole in the middle to route pump wiring? As it will be under water i'd like to see how that was accomplished. Thanks

Since glass hole saws dont have a pilot, it really doesn't matter if the glass being cut is a thin ring of full plug. You might have issues if the difference is really small, but 1" uniseals to 60mm holes should be something like 8mm on a side and doable. Having a guide keep the bit in place is important of course, and cooling the bit cant be done with just a dam and sitting water, but running water is fine.

If you can fit 1" bulkheads in the holes (it might be close with 1" uniseals) that would work too for the drains, but i'd prefer 1-1/2" at that size tank.

This is the beananimal drain system. 3 of the holes you have could be used, they don't have to be that close together by any means. The weir could be plastic if you can find one long enough, like in the picture. Though your existing 4th hole at the top should be external to the box, so having it stop short of that hole would be necessary. Making it out of glass is quite simple, just 2 long pieces and a tiny end cap.

Only 1 of the valves is necessary (on the siphon line), and i would omit the others and use a gate valve instead of ball valves. Also i would place it right above the sump, instead of behind the tank.

The whole drain plan/theory is written out here:
http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx

 

[thejuggernaut]

Yep, I would do a C2C like pictured above. Look here!

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1541946&page=334

But you better grab a Snickers, cause you aren't going anywhere for ahwile. This thread is a MONSTER! Uncleof6 will get you going good though. He is very knowledgeable on this setup.

I would probably just put a bulkhead and cap off the lower hole. That thing is asking for trouble. IMHO

 

[Gorgok]

What if the sump is located in an adjacent room? Is it ok to plump the drains a horizontal distance to the sump Or, combine the drain pipes into a 2 or 3" pipe after the true unions and then route a single drain to the remote sump?? Also to make clear, the only hole i'm to resize is the 4th on top to the right?
Can you please to reference me to the post you mentioned about the person that used that 5th hole in the middle to route pump wiring?

A slope should always be present on drains, the steeper the better really.

You can't combine the pipes, as they perform different functions and in different ways.

If you can fit 1" bulkheads as is, you could get by with only resizing the one hole for the return with that drain system. It was designed with 1" bulkheads in mind, but 1-1/2" plumbing, and i don't see any reason not to just go to 1-1/2" bulkheads and plumbing on a tank that size. They will be capable of flowing more than you are pumping in either case, but it cuts down on the parts count and hasn't caused any issues in my smaller tank as is...

The basic idea on the pump wire in bulkhead is that if you have a pipe on the outside that goes higher than the waterline, water won't come out of the pipe. It will be wet in the pipe, sure, but that doesn't matter... Slief's recent post on the thing.

 

[S2minute]

You're right and that makes sense. I'll redrill all the holes except the 5th on the middle. I don't see how it be easy to clean that pump being wired through the 5th bulkhead though. I usually take mine to a slop sink and clean but that would mean the cords would have to come with. How would you put them back in?

A slope should always be present on drains, the steeper the better really.

You can't combine the pipes, as they perform different functions and in different ways.

If you can fit 1" bulkheads as is, you could get by with only resizing the one hole for the return with that drain system. It was designed with 1" bulkheads in mind, but 1-1/2" plumbing, and i don't see any reason not to just go to 1-1/2" bulkheads and plumbing on a tank that size. They will be capable of flowing more than you are pumping in either case, but it cuts down on the parts count and hasn't caused any issues in my smaller tank as is...

The basic idea on the pump wire in bulkhead is that if you have a pipe on the outside that goes higher than the waterline, water won't come out of the pipe. It will be wet in the pipe, sure, but that doesn't matter... Slief's recent post on the thing.

 

[Gorgok]

If you actually do that, then yeah its probably not too easy. I don't, don't plan on it, and so far has never been necessary no matter how crusty my Tunze get they simply work.

They way Slief had them wired in meant the cord was soldered off one end or the other, as the plug wouldn't fit through the pipe/hole. With a location like that on the bulkhead they will probably be half buried in rocks as is making removing them hard on their own.

Installing a bulkhead (whatever fits) and using a plug on it (i would use slip fittings of some combination to guarantee it cannot ever leak) would be very simple and a good way to get rid of it as well. If you plan to have some cave dwellers you could even install the plug on the outside, so the bulkhead is a small short cave in the back wall for someone to hide in.

 

[S2minute]

Yeah, i'll end up just plugging it. Thanks for all your help guys , i'll post a pic when it's done

 

[laverda]

A lot depends on how much flow you want to have to the sump. 5 times tank volume is really plenty and saves on electrical costs. I would use the two in the center and make an overflow to fit them after enlarging them to 2 1.25 bulkheads or 3 1" bulkheads. The smaller bulkheads allow you to keep the overflow smaller in side the tank.

If you want 10 times flow to the sump then 2 1.5" bulkheads or to 3 1.25" bulkheads should get you there.

I would use the two at the ends for returns as is

 

[S2minute]

Aye, this in not the main DT. It's going to be a frag tank that's going to be plumed in with the entire system. The first redrilled 1.5" hole went just fine, in less than 3 mins I was surprised!.

 

[S2minute]

Trying to find those "Slix" pvc street elbows mentioned in bean animals thread, made several calls to suggested companies with no luck. Any input on that guys?

 

[Gorgok]

Ah yeah, the picture has a misprint. Its a should say slip, but a slip/slip reducing elbow isn't really what it is i think, it should be a slip/spigot reducing elbow. Not that i can find one of those...


If you decide to drill the holes for something like 1-1/2" then i wouldn't bother with a reducing one, just a 1-1/2" street elbow.

 

[S2minute]

Yeah thanks, 3 of the 4 holes on top are redrilled to 1.5" the 4th is still 1" and i figured i'd leave that for a return. Just ordered most of the fittings for the Bean overflow. Except, i've been trying to get in touch with: http://aquariumoverflow.com/index.php?act=viewDoc&docId=5

via e-mail about having them make me a 54" c2c with an end cap and lid but, i have not gotten a response back. Why do these places not give a ph #? They ask for yours for Gods sake. You guys know of any place that will make me one out of black acrylic?

Ah yeah, the picture has a misprint. Its a should say slip, but a slip/slip reducing elbow isn't really what it is i think, it should be a slip/spigot reducing elbow. Not that i can find one of those...


If you decide to drill the holes for something like 1-1/2" then i wouldn't bother with a reducing one, just a 1-1/2" street elbow.

 

[S2minute]

Hi guys Well, the 3 holes are drilled. The last i'll leave at 1" for the return. One thing i realized is as i drilled, even though i stayed as close as i could to the top of the original holes, the holes themselves were progressively lower.
As drilled: Top of hole #1 is 5/8" below the bottom of the trim. Hole #2 is 3/4" below and hole #3 is 7/8" below. What i planned on doing is using hole #1 for the open channel, #2 for the emergency and #3 for the syphon because it will place it that much lower then the open channel. Does that sound right? One more thing.
I'm going to use a 75Gal rubbermaid tank for the sump but, i want to tie it into the DT sump which is a 150 gal rubbermaid and located about 10 feet away. The concerns here are two fold. The 75 gal rubbermaid is only about 34" long and the spread of the holes in the tank is about 40" so, while i can easily run a straight 1.5" pipe down into the sump, the other 2 i'll have to use 2 45s on for only a very short distance to make them go into the sump. Is that ok?
The other is i'm going to install a 2" bulkhead into the 75 gal sump and run the 2" pvc over to the main sump. I realized to do that i'd have to build a platform so the drain from the 75 to the 150 can be gravity fed. I figure this will give me about 23-24" of fall from the syphon holes to the water level in the 75...and is that ok too?? Thanks :spin1:

Ah yeah, the picture has a misprint. Its a should say slip, but a slip/slip reducing elbow isn't really what it is i think, it should be a slip/spigot reducing elbow. Not that i can find one of those...


If you decide to drill the holes for something like 1-1/2" then i wouldn't bother with a reducing one, just a 1-1/2" street elbow.