invert compatibility with proposed stock list?

[fermentedhiker]

I'm in the planning stages for setting up a 93 gallon cube(with a sump made from either a 20L or a 29). The sump will be a typical 3 section job with the input being a combo skimmer/xenia section, the middle being the return pump and the third being a mud/sand bed gracilaria and pod factory. I'm planning on a second tank as a remote fuge run off a split from the return pump. It will be a 20extra high and will be sort of a "duplex" fuge. It will have a deep sand bed base, covered with 20-40 lbs of live rock rubble, with chaeto/caulerpa grown on top on a reverse light cycle. I've been playing around with my "wishlist" a lot lately. I'm curious about shrimp/crab compatibility with the fish I'm thinking of.

I'm planning a mixed reef with a couple small Islands for paly/zoas. Because it's a cube I'm not sure if I'll be able to manage two primary structures or just one complex one. Time will tell.

Cuc will be snail based.

The fish stocklist I'm currently playing with is as follows(I'm sure there will be some removed for various reasons but it's a place to start right);

Randall's prawn goby(w/tiger pistol shrimp)
Starry Blenny
Jawfish(blue dot if the budget will take it)
Mandarin pair(added after a year or more)
Carpenter's or McCosker's wrasse
Darwin Ocellaris pair or a black and white percula pair
Chalk Bass or Black capped basslet
Pygmy cherub angel or fishers angel(reef safeness is an issue)
Tomini tang(probably the first to get dropped because of tank length)
Longnose Atlantic Butterflyfish(reef safeness is an issue)

My invert list;
maxi mini carpet nem
rock flower new
either an RBTA or a Malu when I'm satisfied I can deal with their needs.

Anemone porcelain crab x2
Pom pom crab x1
Emerald crab x2(thinking of dropping these as I've read they can turn into fish eaters when older/larger)
Halloween hermit(wasn't going to include hermits but these look really nice, maybe I'll leave them out of the display if I find room for them in the fuge)
Electric blue hermit(ditto above)

Peppermint shrimp(hopefully some insurance against an aiptasia outbreak)
Sexy shrimp(too small?)
Bumble bee shrimp(to small?)

Other inverts I'm interested in and may add depending on how the tank takes shape;
Fuzzy Chiton
Short spined urchin
Lettuce Nudi

So what I'm wondering.....or maybe susupecting is that the shrimp are potential meals for the either basslet? Which means choosing between having a basslet or having shrimp, thoughts?

Are the porcelain crabs safe from being on anyone's menu?

How likely are the emerald crabs and pom pom crab to try and make a meal of something else?

Thanks for the help.
Adam

 

[Moort82]

Hi Adam

I like your fish list. There isn't anything that really worries me. I haven't kept the fishers so don't know about reef suitability for that but i don't think any of the rest would be a problem at all. I would also opt for an easier jawfish rather than a blue as they really need lower temperatures than an average reef or they can succumb to bacterial infections. Yellow head jaws are perhaps the best choice.

Anemones aren't always a wise thing to keep with mandarins. I seen them kept with mini maxis before but it would always be a risk. Perhaps the best thing would be a BTA. Yes they have stronger nematocysts and would be more of a threat than the other two species you mention but if the clowns host it then the mandarin would likely stay well away. A cloned nem would be better and malu's can be very hard to keep longterm.

The chalk bass or possibly its replacement the black cap would be a problem for the inclusion of sexy or bumblebee shrimp. They are interesting and perhaps would make an interesting addition to the third section of your sump with the algae. You could easily add a mini maxi here for the sexy's as they don't need a huge amount of light. Ime the bumblebees are perhaps the coolest of the small shrimp but they get lost in a bigger system so would be a nice addition for a nano section.
A black cap shouldn't eat normal sized shrimp like your peppermints. It would also mean skunk cleaners or blood shrimps would be possible. Again i haven't kept the chalk bass so couldn't comment but given the size i've seen them get and the fact they are a bass would mean i personally wouldn't want to mix them, that might go for the porcelain crabs as well but nothing else on the list should worry them. Another thumbs up for the small shrimp section to the sump.

I personally wouldn't really worry about the emerald crabs eating anything. If they are well fed they won't need to predate anything. In the average tank there should be plenty of food for these and given the nice diversity of fish, i don't think anything would impinge on its food source too much. You also have nothing to worry about with the pom pom crab, apart from finding it. You may only get the odd glimpse but they are worth it.

Good luck, it does sound like a nice well thought out system.

 

[hogfanreefer]

Only thing I can see is the basslets might eat the tiny sexy shrimp. I think larger shrimp would be fine as long as they are introduced before the basslet.

 

[fermentedhiker]

Thanks for the replies. Putting the mini carpet in the fuge is an idea I hadn't really thought a lot about, but I kind of like it. Kind of like having my own little nano display fuge attached to the system. I just saw gorgeous red mini carpet at cultivated reefs website that supposedly normally maxes out at 1.5". It would be perfect in the fuge.

I'll have to think about the bumble bees. They are carnivorous from what I've read and might be able to negatively impact pod production when housed in the production area. I liked the idea of them in the display since like harlequins they eat starfish and it would be nice to have them if I ever got an infestation of those micro stars i've read about, that and they don't need starfish like the harlequins do.

I had heard that skunk cleaners can annoy corals by constantly walking over them so I was thinking of leaving them out, but I'll take another look. Blood reds would be very nice to have. I was just worried about having something that cost that much end up as lunch.

Thanks for the heads up on the blue spot. I'll research some more compatible alternatives.

Hopefully the porcelain crabs will hang out in the rock flower and be somewhat safe as well as discourage the mandarins from exploring.

Originally I was leaning toward the Malu(assuming I could successfully acclimate it) because they stay smaller than RBTA and since they like to anchor in sand they are less likely to come into conflict with corals.

any thoughts or experiences with the two hermits?

 

[Moort82]

Having had bumblebees before i wouldn't consider them as predators of either asterina starfish or pods. They will eat the tube feet of echinoderms but this is on such a small scale that i doubt you'd notice it. They also turn into scavengers like most shrimps we keep. They certainly aren't obligate feeders like harlequins.

Some cleaner shrimp can be a pain if you have slow digesting corals which need to be fed like sun corals as they will try nd remove the food from the mouth of the coral but for the most part they don't do any damage. The only problem i have had with them in a mixed reef system was by them irritating a fan worm. Mine and those i've seen with normal stocked tanks tend to find an overhang or sheltered area to hang out as they would in nature, so not really walking over the corals. They don't really seem to do much cleaning in my tanks as they are so well fed and i'd guess this is the case in most systems so could easily be ignored. Blood shrimps are better but much shyer. So unless you have a nice open structure where you can see most of the tank you might not see too much of them. They do get bolder once settled but agree they are very expensive nowadays.

Porcelains can be aggressive towards one another and i think in a small rock flower would likely only be suitable for one. If they hand one each i don't think you'd have a problem but you might see fighting if they couldn't get away from each other.

Both of those hermit species get pretty big. They can be destructive but enough people keep them without too much issue. A couple in your size tank would add interest but i think you'd be better with something smaller like the red legged hermits which will do a better job in terms of cleaning up. They are also the most peaceful of all hermits ime.