csammis
Mental Institution
http://www.dmregister.com/apps/pbcs...EWS03/603240370/1001&lead=1&template=printart
Keep those RO units going...
Keep those RO units going...
Iowa water among nations most polluted
- Thread starter csammis
- Start date
xroads
New member
I am not surprised considering the farming practices in Iowa. I worked on farms as a kid when we cleaned out the hog yards we would dump the raw sewage right into the drainage ditch. Now the tear up all the fences & farm every inch of land they have. With all the stuff they put on, there is no buffers any more to soak that stuff up. The farmers here have too much power & they really dont care about the guy getting their waste cause it is down stream.
Craig
Craig
vincejo28
New member
Just an FYI, there have been many studies done that say that the amount of chemicals people use on their lawns in the city, have a much greater negative affect on the water supply then the chemicals used by farmers. The amount of concentration is much much much higher on a lawn then what the farmers spray on their fields. As far as the hog waste goes, that is livestock, and although a lot of farmers have livestock that is not farming. The fact that wasted got dumped into a drainage ditch is not common practice for all. In fact there are very strict policies on where it can be spread. As far as the farmers having all the powerââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦.well I think it would be safe to say that Iowaââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s economy (what economy we do have) was built and sustained by farming. Not a farmer, not trying to pick a fight, but what would Iowa be without farming? Just a little food for thought.
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xroads
New member
I grew up farming so I understand the importance of farms in Iowa. And no not all farmers are bad and do stupid things. But I do see a vast majority tiling every field they have and tearing out every fence row & stands of trees so they can plant a few more plants. I think if they were all a little bit more aware of what was going on and all did their part it would be much better. What other reason for Iowa's foul water?
got2lb
New member
I think a lot of it goes back 10 years or so when regulations weren't as strict as they are now. Like vincejo said their are VERY STRICT regulations on when and where you can spread manure and pesticides. Trust me I'm a liscensed applicator for both. I used to work for a coop as an applicator and I spent roughly 40 hrs a year in a classroom for recirtification.
Most of the problems I feel are from years ago when people would do just as Craig said. Dump the stuff whereever. Down a drainage ditch, waterway, in creek, wherever it may be. Just so they didn't have to deal with disposing of it. Now it's coming back to haunt us.
Just within the last couple years manure regulations have changed a ton regarding how much you can apply because they first thought the only thing they had to worry about were getting to many nitrates in the ground and seeping into the water supply. Now they're starting to realize that their is a lot of other things they need to watch out for as well.
Like vincejo said as well, how many of you spray your lawns for dandelions? Guess what you're putting the same stuff on your lawn as the farmer's putting on his field! You're just getting charged more for it. I don't think in a single pass they're putting more on than a farmer. I feel companies like chemlawn and others water it down a little more that way they can come back every couple weeks and apply it again. Which over the long term you're probably putting on 3 times the amount you would need!
I do feel that the DNR is trying their best to help out with these problems but it's hard to fix things that have already happened. They are getting more strict on who can apply chemicals and other hazardous items. But you can't keep an eye on everyone when you're working on a very tight budget. Especially when some people just don't care!
If you think about how many jobs relate to agriculture in the US how many people do you know wouldn't have a job if we didn't have any agriculture?
I WOULDN'T
Just my opinion so take it for what it's worth!
Most of the problems I feel are from years ago when people would do just as Craig said. Dump the stuff whereever. Down a drainage ditch, waterway, in creek, wherever it may be. Just so they didn't have to deal with disposing of it. Now it's coming back to haunt us.
Just within the last couple years manure regulations have changed a ton regarding how much you can apply because they first thought the only thing they had to worry about were getting to many nitrates in the ground and seeping into the water supply. Now they're starting to realize that their is a lot of other things they need to watch out for as well.
Like vincejo said as well, how many of you spray your lawns for dandelions? Guess what you're putting the same stuff on your lawn as the farmer's putting on his field! You're just getting charged more for it. I don't think in a single pass they're putting more on than a farmer. I feel companies like chemlawn and others water it down a little more that way they can come back every couple weeks and apply it again. Which over the long term you're probably putting on 3 times the amount you would need!
I do feel that the DNR is trying their best to help out with these problems but it's hard to fix things that have already happened. They are getting more strict on who can apply chemicals and other hazardous items. But you can't keep an eye on everyone when you're working on a very tight budget. Especially when some people just don't care!
If you think about how many jobs relate to agriculture in the US how many people do you know wouldn't have a job if we didn't have any agriculture?
I WOULDN'T
Just my opinion so take it for what it's worth!
phishcrazee
Member
I live in NE Iowa, and I think the farmers are very careful, for the most part, on how they treat their land. Because of the hills, they have to landscape "steppes" into the hills to prevent erosion. They plant a strip of corn and a strip of beans to help with bugs, to lessen pesticide use. I think most farmers realize they have to be smart nowadays with what they've got or down the road they aren't going to have much. Most farmers I know love the land and love working on it, and wouldn't knowingly do anything to harm the water supplies, as they live here with their families. Of course, there are always some bad apples in the bunch, but I agree it's probably the large factory farms and the old practices that used to be in use that are the cause of Iowas water problems.
reefcrazy00246
New member
I think you would be frightened to see what happens when people aren't looking.
I'm sorry but, I can't disagree with you more on this. The DNR is one of the most paid off bunch of people I have ever seen, especially when it comes to these large hog confinement buildings. Note: Livestock is farming! These operations can do whatever they want and get away with it. They can pollute our water supply and the DNR will look the other direction. They can build illegal facilities, and as long as it is already in the process of being built, nobody will do anything about it. People up here fight these confinements from coming in all the time and our gov't officals literally said once, "Well, you just don't have enough money to do anything."
Now, most farmers are good to the land, and do everything they can to protect it, using everything from buffering to rotary hoeing. Unfortunately, it is a few of these big huge farmers and corporations that are doing the most damage...because they can.
I'm sorry but, I can't disagree with you more on this. The DNR is one of the most paid off bunch of people I have ever seen, especially when it comes to these large hog confinement buildings. Note: Livestock is farming! These operations can do whatever they want and get away with it. They can pollute our water supply and the DNR will look the other direction. They can build illegal facilities, and as long as it is already in the process of being built, nobody will do anything about it. People up here fight these confinements from coming in all the time and our gov't officals literally said once, "Well, you just don't have enough money to do anything."
Now, most farmers are good to the land, and do everything they can to protect it, using everything from buffering to rotary hoeing. Unfortunately, it is a few of these big huge farmers and corporations that are doing the most damage...because they can.
phishcrazee
Member
Ummm, didn't I say that?! It's the larger operations that are damaging or can be.
reefcrazy00246
New member
What is your point?? My post mainly talks about how the dnr is basically looking the other direction on the hog confinements. Besides...can I not agree with you on something?!?!?!?
got2lb
New member
I def. agree with you on that. There are always a few that try and get away with it and do.
How exactly are they illegal? Does the county you live in have a law against building hog confinements?
The DNR has little control over the building itself. The DNR is there to make sure the manure that the hogs are creating is being applied in an appropriate manner. Not over applied. And believe me there are out there doing this. I have a very good friend that hauls hog confinement manure for a living. He has a pretty good size business doing this. I usually help him out in the fall. This last fall I was stopped by a DNR officer and he checked my liscense and actually rode out to the field with me and made sure that we were applying everything according to the sites manure management plan.
You would probably be suprised at how "huge" these farmers are that own the hog confinements. Most of them are not very large farmers at all. The farmers build the confinements on their land for supplemental income. The farmers do not "OWN" the hogs inside the building. Usually someone else owns the hogs inside. They basically lease the building out to someone. The farmer is then in charge of caring for the hogs. They can chose to do it themselves or hire someone to take care of it.
The people running these are just like everyone else just trying to make a little more money for themselves.
phishcrazee
Member
Sure you can disagree! I thought we were agreeing, however 
Chill out 
Chill out When hog manure is applied to land, it would seem to me that the phosphates, nitrates, etc have to go somewhere. Certainly, some are being used by the crops, but it would also seem reasonable to assume that some of it is being washed away into our water supplies. When hogs were raised by individual farmers on every farm in the county, this manure was spread on the cropland too, but it was not a concentrated, fermented ooze, and it was spread in relatively low concentrations. Other states ran into water quality issues, and then got rid of the hogs. Hopefully, Iowa can follow.
Roll221
Premium Member
Hey lets not get drastic here!! I look forward to coming home on leave and have a big Iowa Chops and pork patties. This all kind of sounds similar to the the restrictions and regulation in place in Hawaii regarding the collecting and keeping corals. The state just banded all collecting because of the irresponsibility of a few. Making it impossible for responsible, ethical people to be able to have a "Pork Chop"
Ed
Hey, wait just a minute. I'm 56. I grew up on a farm, and we raised hogs responsibly. We farrowed fifteen to twenty sows and fattened the pigs and sent them to market. We cleaned the hog house and spread the manure on our pastures and fallow fields. While I'm sure we had some run off, I don't think it was in a concentration to be dangerous. It was also not a liquid that hit the ground and soaked down immediately but rather a solid that deteriorated slowly over time. It contained a lot of straw that helped to enrich rather than just fertilize the ground. I think hogs should be raised like that. We made money on hogs. We didn't get rich, but the farmers who are raising the hogs for the big corprations aren't getting rich either. The corporations are doing just fine, thanks. America's farmers are being pushed into a position of just working for someone else. Someone who has less love and concern for the land. I'm a proud native Iowan, and this subject makes me sad.
reefcrazy00246
New member
got2lb: It has been a little while since this discussion was had, so details are a little fuzzy at the moment on the legality(sp?) of the buildings...it was something to do with the size or type of facilities, and most likely what it violated was the DNR permit. And I agree, I think they do a pretty decent job with the manure application part, making sure they are following contracts for the manure and have so many acres per pig, etc, etc. And, I may have sounded a little against dnr before, I don't think it is the actual guys/officers driving around that are being 'paid off' but he guys above them or even higher in the chain than that, that are shady. As far as the farmers and ownership, up here we have a little of everything. But, they are the ones selling the land and saying yeah, yeah I'll buy however many millions of gallons of hog manure at 1 cent per gallon to put on my land. And size i guess is a matter of opinion. Most seem pretty big to me. One guy here now wants to put up 60 new buildings, he gets a cut of the manure sales. He will be getting plenty of money, I would hate to think how many gallons of manure will come off of 60 buildings. And, I am talking 60 buildings with a thousand pigs or more in them...talk about pollution. Two of these buildings are planned to be built around my house...they are both going to be within 1/8 of a mile of drainage ditches/streams.
phishcrazee: Yeah, I know we are agreeing, that is what I meant, it may not have come out right though, my bad!
Roll221: Ed how you doing?? Sorry to say, but if you are eating 'big iowa chops' you are not eating chops out of these confinment buildings. Besides, you don't have to smell the nasty stinch that comes out of these places either!
iaJim: You are exactly right! I still have a small operation here, but the only reason is that I still show them. The markets aren't worth anything so no money is made there. Kinda like reef tanks I guess. The worst part of the whole deal is that as soon as these big corps started rolling, that is when the hog markets took a dump and all the little responsible guys were forced to sell out.
phishcrazee: Yeah, I know we are agreeing, that is what I meant, it may not have come out right though, my bad!
Roll221: Ed how you doing?? Sorry to say, but if you are eating 'big iowa chops' you are not eating chops out of these confinment buildings. Besides, you don't have to smell the nasty stinch that comes out of these places either!
iaJim: You are exactly right! I still have a small operation here, but the only reason is that I still show them. The markets aren't worth anything so no money is made there. Kinda like reef tanks I guess. The worst part of the whole deal is that as soon as these big corps started rolling, that is when the hog markets took a dump and all the little responsible guys were forced to sell out.
got2lb
New member
A 1000 head building will average roughly 4-500,000 gallons of liquid manure a year. So 60 buildings is a lot of manure.
I don't want to come across as someone devoted to saving hog confinements. I was just trying to state some facts being I know quite a bit on how they operate.
I'm not a big fan of them either. In fact we were looking to build a house on some ground my inlaws own. And withing the last 2 years their are now 6 buildings within a 1/2 mile of where we were planning on building. The people that own them are planning on putting up 3 more within the next 5 years. Also they just built a 1000 head dairy setup 1.5 miles down the road from the hog site.
It eventually will come down to the point where the people that own the sites will have to pay HUGE dollars to get rid of the manure if enough people don't want the manure on their land. That's about the only way to fight them. That's what people have to do! I guarantee their will NEVER be any confinement manure on my inlaws land!
On the flipside my sisters husband works for Tyson (IBP) as a hog buyer and my wifes brother works for Christinson Farms (heartland pork) in charge of quite a few things. And I have quite a few other close family friends that work around the hogs as well. So it will hit pretty close to home if we get rid of all the hogs.
Oh well I guess what do you do?
