I am putting together a new set up, 60gal + 30gal sump. I was planning on just having a refugium, but I can't decide if I should run a protein skimmer as well. The information I have read about refugiums says that you don't need a protein skimmer, but it seems like a lot of people claim a protein skimmer is a must have. What do you guys think???
Is a Protein Skimmer really necessary?
- Thread starter cital
- Start date
Roland Jacques
Premium Member
i guess that depends on what you want to keep in you tank. or if you up size your refugium to about 500 Gallons you could stock your 60 to the rim with just about any thing.
a GOOD skimmer is the best money you will spend on your aquarium. i would go without the refugium before i went with out a GOOD skimmer.
or you can just do weekly 30% water changes
but it still depends on what you want to keep in you tank.
a GOOD skimmer is the best money you will spend on your aquarium. i would go without the refugium before i went with out a GOOD skimmer.
or you can just do weekly 30% water changes
but it still depends on what you want to keep in you tank.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Gobie, could you please post your system details (size, contents, filtrations, turnover, water changes etc). I am curious as to what methodology you are using to keep a healthy tank with no skimmer. Do you have photos?
Roland Jacques
Premium Member
the other thing without a skimmer you have something die in you tank (a feather duster, annenome, or your favorite naso tang) and you don't catch it, that can get ugly fast, even crash your tank.
a skimmer reacts to changing bio damands better than any other thing i can think of.
But, it still depends on what you want to keep in you tank.
a skimmer reacts to changing bio damands better than any other thing i can think of.
But, it still depends on what you want to keep in you tank.
thanks for the responses, what about the argument that skimmers take out a lot of good stuff in the water as well, my friend had a tank set up and he only had a refugium for a long time, then he added a skimmer and he felt his tank actually did worse after he started running the skimmer. Any thoughts?
180 gallon mixed reef with sps lps anemones and clams. A lot of live rock, donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t ask me how much, it built up over the years. An EcoSystem sump and 40 lbs of miracle mud. I use TropicMarin salt and do a 15 gallon water change every three to four months. I only dose kalkwasser no other additives and I feed the fish seaweed selects, frozen and flake alternating food throughout the day. I fed three times a day. I have some of my fish over seven years that have been move when I soled my old system along with the skimmer. I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t treat for ich, my fish have built up an immunity. The corals from the old system have exploded in the new system, the growth is unbelievable. I had to sell my colt coral or it would have been one hole side of my tank. My water always test perfect never had a bad test. For lighting I have 4 six foot vhos and four 175 watt metal halides. For water movement I have three 1190 gph pumps one on the refugium to tank and two on a wave maker along with another 1800 gph pump. The tank is so easy to take care of I almost forget about it. The kalkwasser is dosed with a homemade kalk reactor using a bucket, not the best design but It cost twenty dollars to make with the pump and it works with no effort. I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t even use filter pads or socks so I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t need to worry about it.
This is my fish list
2 clowns
1 blond naso
1 hippo tang
1 yellow tang
3 purple tangs
2 blue throat triggers male and female
1 coral beauty
1 fox face
1 six line wrasse
1 Bicolor Pseudochromis
1 Royal Gramma
1 canary goby
1 yellow tail damsel
4 cleaner neon gobies
I tried not to leave any thing out sorry for the long post.
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I have to disagree, if you have enough biological filtration a dead fish wonââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t be a problem. I just had a large copper band butterfly that wouldnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t eat food it only wanted aptasias and tube worms after a year and a half he finally ran out of food and still wouldnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t eat what I would try to feed it. He died from starvation behind my rock and my water parameters did nothing. I have scavengers that will eat up a dead fish fast.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
DSB SSB or BB in the display?
Originally I was going to build my own refugium and set up the tank exactly as it is now with out a skimmer. I had it all planned out, when I went and talked it over with a aquarium store owner Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m friends with, he laughed and told me a new company he was in touch with has the exact method im thinking of using and has this new filter he wants to try out it was the EcoSystem filter, so he gave me a good deal on every thing including the tank. I was amazed the first couple of months at how all my corals were doing. Every thing I put in the tank has thrived. The only thing that didnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t live was an experiment he wanted to try, he got some dendronepthya in and wanted to see how it would do in a tank with no filters. I got it to live for a little over a year but it still wasted away. Other then that I still have every coral I have bought and never lost anything, sold a lot though.
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Chad Vossen
New member
i got a 10 gallon tank with about 9 gallons for a refuge. i use a tank divider to seperate my powerheads from the "live section".
i have a seaclone that doesnt always do much of anything and instead of buyin that 300$ skimmer, i bought caulpra and chaeto. and i have the 10$ lights on their way. so total i have spent 40$ on plants and lights for the fuge. and after a month i expect it to replace my skimmer. right now i got hair algae makin up for the poor skimming and theres plenty of hair algae... cant wait till the macro algae starts to take hold.
does anyone else use this in their sump/refuge? or would i need sand down there and/or mud? right now i got a bunch of rubble
i have a seaclone that doesnt always do much of anything and instead of buyin that 300$ skimmer, i bought caulpra and chaeto. and i have the 10$ lights on their way. so total i have spent 40$ on plants and lights for the fuge. and after a month i expect it to replace my skimmer. right now i got hair algae makin up for the poor skimming and theres plenty of hair algae... cant wait till the macro algae starts to take hold.
does anyone else use this in their sump/refuge? or would i need sand down there and/or mud? right now i got a bunch of rubble
E-A-G-L-E-S
New member
gobie........all those fish and corals, with no skimmer and only 5-10% water changes every couple months..........................
defies everything i've been told, BUT NICE TANK!
defies everything i've been told, BUT NICE TANK!
Roland Jacques
Premium Member
Well their you go. After 2 years out of the hobby im happy to be wrong, trash the skimmers! Or may be just turn it off and see. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m setting up my 120, i'm getting excited that I might be able to save some big bucks. I think I love you. Low tech, even I can afford that. Tell me more about your EcoSystem sump and 40 lbs of miracle mud. Dimensions... i've try it before with poor results. In hindsight I might have had a problem with phosphate
I have more time now i will try it again steer me in the right direction please.
PS. what dose ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œDSB SSB or BBââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ in the display mean?
I have more time now i will try it again steer me in the right direction please.
PS. what dose ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œDSB SSB or BBââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ in the display mean?
E-A-G-L-E-S
New member
Deep Sand Bed
Shallow Sand Bed
Bare Bottom
Shallow Sand Bed
Bare Bottom
CaptiveReef
LED FULL SPECTRUM REEFER
Yes a skimmer is needed
Yes a skimmer is needed
Here is what is pulled out by a skimmer, skimmers pull out more than proteins, they pull out Terpens, which is the chemical defense that corals release.
In the pics you see the bucket with nasty skimmate, and the top of the skimmer that is usually clear is showing the foam production.
CaptiveReef
Yes a skimmer is needed
Here is what is pulled out by a skimmer, skimmers pull out more than proteins, they pull out Terpens, which is the chemical defense that corals release.
In the pics you see the bucket with nasty skimmate, and the top of the skimmer that is usually clear is showing the foam production.
CaptiveReefforensicdoc
New member
A skimmer is a tool, just like refugiums, DSB's, etc. ad nauseum, to assist the hobbyist in sustaining a natural system in an artificial environment. In the 35 years I have been in the hobby, I have seen myraid changes in theories, concepts and practical applications.
Before those who would object chime in, I would still consider refugiums and other "natural" filtrations systems an artificial environment. I do not believe that it will be possible (in my lifetime anyway) to duplicate the miracle that is a coral reef within a container of glass or acrylic.
Having said that, I believe that there are many different ways to have a successful tank. It does not have to include a skimmer, although it is an extremely useful tool that can make many tanks successful. In the end, success takes a lot of study, a significant committment of money and/or effort, and a little bit of luck. The most important thing is to enjoy yourself, otherwise the efforts are wasted.
Before those who would object chime in, I would still consider refugiums and other "natural" filtrations systems an artificial environment. I do not believe that it will be possible (in my lifetime anyway) to duplicate the miracle that is a coral reef within a container of glass or acrylic.
Having said that, I believe that there are many different ways to have a successful tank. It does not have to include a skimmer, although it is an extremely useful tool that can make many tanks successful. In the end, success takes a lot of study, a significant committment of money and/or effort, and a little bit of luck. The most important thing is to enjoy yourself, otherwise the efforts are wasted.
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