Is ABS inert ?

[Fredfish]

Interesting thread. I have also used abs in my tanks without thinking about it.

I would go with the chemist doing the formulations rather than the reef bible guy. Bibles don't always get it right.

Personally I use pvc when I can, abs when I have no other choice (except those eggcrate supports I just didn't think about).

Fred

 

[tinyreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7294373#post7294373 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ChemE
If it is softer, chances are it contians additives which may or may not pollute our tanks. I'll be curious to see how this washes with what the others have posted above.

i agree that there are plasticizers and additives that will leach out over time. there's no dispute of that as i noted before. in fact, i thought there was a recent study by wilkinson about plastic contaminants detected at uber-low levels when she was investigating algae scrubbers or something.

but by and large the contaminants should be minimal. for instance, i've run a rubbermaid sump (competitor, grrrr) for a number of years ,as many others here have, with no overtly ill-effects . buckets, filters, hoses, etc. all will leach some contaminants (most likely plasticizers) into the system, "plastic taste". iirc, even the silicone sealant ubiquitously used leaches/degrades over time too. in other words, it's pretty normal for plasticizers to be inadvertently introduced.

anti-fungal addtivies, colorants, uv-inhibitors, scents, etc. are another matter. but most colorants are inertly locked into the plastic itself. it's not a layer that rubs off or evaporates/mixes into the water. there are a few exceptions though but that really more occurs in incorrect colorant usage with the incorrect material (e.g. styrenic colorant used in a polyolefin material like PP). then you could get some nastiness, but still unlikely to get to the consumer as the product would almost show some "wear/tear" before very long, i.e. product recall.

there are some other applications that obviously shouldn't be used, e.g. the pine scented bucket or slick-feeling container, etc. that's kinda best judgement call though as plastic use is everywhere in every shape and size. thank goodness otherwise i'd starve. :lol:

but plastics (and plasticizers) are ubiquituous in our hobby already: molded acrylic tanks, undergravel filters (that's an interesting one as they're mostly styrene and something i wouldn't trust but i haven't seen crazy crashes from that though), filter cartridges, pumps, containers for reef additives, etc.

otoh, that doesn't make every plastic safe though but i think the simple rule application you noted of "potability" would suffice (probably overkill in many circumstances) but still a safe bet imo. hth

 

[Putawaywet]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7294623#post7294623 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fredfish
I would go with the chemist doing the formulations rather than the reef bible guy. Bibles don't always get it right.

Fred

You have an interesting way with words there.

Brett

 

[Sparkss]

Dunno, but this thread needs either another chemist or another bible guy, because it just won't die

All great information though, many thanks to all that have shared and contributed their knowledge and experiences

I still haven't found the fittings that I want, I am looking for something to replace the wye fittings I am using for a drain in our new setup :

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=835341

I want something with a shorter profile, and the only one(s) I found that fit that bill was in ABS (well, the only ones locally). Since I have been rather busy at work I haven't done much searching online for the parts I want/need.. yet

 

[Fredfish]

Thats what I get for posting at 4:00am. Reference back to TRA 3 as "our bible". Heck, it made sense to me...

Given a choice between a chemist who has specifically worked with formulations of the plastic being discussed or a very knowledgable bilologist, I would tend to accept what the chemist has to say.

Fred

 

[Sparkss]

I like hearing from both, to let the information supplement and "balance" itself out But that is just me.

 

[ChemE]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7301312#post7301312 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fredfish
...Given a choice between a chemist who has specifically worked with formulations of the plastic being discussed or a very knowledgable bilologist, I would tend to accept what the chemist has to say.

Fred

I read back through the thread and still can't tell...who's the chemist who worked with the formulation for ABS?

 

[goda]

hey buy the part. and take a pict. well see if we can come up with a way to make it out of pvc im still not 100 percent sure what the exact part is
but
i have talked to some more people ( former plumbing bussiness owner)
he said that the fittings for abs usualy dont contain fungicides but the tubes used for drains usualy do.

maybe you could start a small tank with just brine shrimp or somthing
then put the ABS into it and see if anything happens.

( btw it seems like some think the only reason i said what i did was cause its in the book. but that isnt true. i said whats in the book cause most people listen to that since he probobly talked to chemist and people who have used it.) either way i think you should use pvc. post a pic of the part and we will see what we can do

 

[crypto]

I think ABS is fine for the tank. I've heard that it is not potable because it is porous to a small degree and could harbor bacteria in drinking water.

Only if you were running hot water through, then I would worry about chemicals leaching from it. I've had pieces in my tank for years as rock supports.

I'd guess that more toxics leach out from the fish food.

 

[stugray]

I'm just a dummy when it comes to this, but is it possible that the typical ABS fittings are designed for smooth flow and not pressure like water supply?

I thought the reason that ABS was not for supply water was due to the fact that the sweeping & curving pieces that are good for drains could not hold up to the full pressure of the water supply line.

Just a WAG: ABS is easier to injection mold ( giving better shapes for drains ), but not as good for high pressure ( like PVC )?

Stu

 

[crypto]

i think you're right about low pressure. the abs is much less dense. i didnt see a pressure rating on the pipe that i have but it clearly doesn't feel as strong as PVC. looking at the end of it, it is porous.

 

[Sparkss]

I did note that about ABS, but since I was wanting to use it for the drain portion of my plumbing, I wasn't too concerned about that aspect of it

 

[tinyreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7311932#post7311932 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by stugray
Just a WAG: ABS is easier to injection mold ( giving better shapes for drains ), but not as good for high pressure ( like PVC )?

ABS is a very easy processing material, requires some drying but gives great physical features: paintable/platable, gloss, flow, strength in impact/tensile, chemical resistance, etc.

usually, it's passed up from other materials because of cost but in comparison to pvc, i actually think pvc is more costly per pound. also, pvc is more difficult to process (i.e. dangerous) as thermal degradation during processing (not uncommon) triggers chlorine gas release and factory-wide evacuations (fun stuff). that's the main reason my company has never molded/processed it.

why it's preferred over ABS? could be simply industry acceptance, chemical properties (resistance, easier install/glue), physical properties, weather resistance, or tensile strength (expansion/contraction/flexibility).

i believe ABS glues/adhesives are typically more toxic than pvc glue (which ain't a walk in the park either) so it could be as simple as that.

 

[ChemE]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7315602#post7315602 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tinyreef
...pvc is more difficult to process (i.e. dangerous) as thermal degradation during processing (not uncommon) triggers chlorine gas release and factory-wide evacuations (fun stuff). that's the main reason my company has never molded/processed it...

I can tell you that if the vinyl sphere at GGC's Aberdeen location (where I used to work) failed, the explosion would be 5 miles in radius and eradicate three small towns in Mississippi.

 

[tinyreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7316731#post7316731 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ChemE
I can tell you that if the vinyl sphere at GGC's Aberdeen location (where I used to work) failed, the explosion would be 5 miles in radius and eradicate three small towns in Mississippi.

maybe that's what happened at the formosa plant in ohio(?) last year.

some of the processes making the raw polymers are really scary from what i've heard. that's why i stick with the resins side, flash point is much higher and they're basically inert.

in those polymerization plants, you could fart wrong and set the place off. :eek1:

 

[ChemE]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7317642#post7317642 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tinyreef
...in those polymerization plants, you could fart wrong and set the place off. :eek1:

Nope, many things would have to fail all at once. While it is possible, it is nearly a statistical impossibility. We "overpaid plumbers" do learn something in school.

 

[tinyreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7319204#post7319204 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ChemE
Nope, many things would have to fail all at once. While it is possible, it is nearly a statistical impossibility. We "overpaid plumbers" do learn something in school.

i was kidding. not disparaging your abilities but accidents do happen unfortunately.

what i remember reading from the formosa article was that an outside contractor backed a forklift onto/hitting a feedstock pipe which leaked and raced along the floor until it found an ignition source. after that it was just 'kaboom'.

edit: just google found the incident, pvc plant. it was two years ago, sorry. i thought it was last year because i thought osha just handed down its ruling (penalties).

 

[boxfishpooalot]

whats all the talk I hear about pipes(abs or the white one) leaching phosphates in bare bottom tanks :lol:

True?

 

[ChemE]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7338005#post7338005 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by boxfishpooalot
whats all the talk I hear about pipes(abs or the white one) leaching phosphates in bare bottom tanks :lol:

True?

Sounds like bunk to me. It is possible iff (if and only if for you non-math types) the plasticizer contains phosphates and it is appreciably mobile within the polymer matrix and it has decent solubility in salt water.