Is an airstone ok in a FOWLR?

[PuffersKick]

I was wondering if it was OK to keep an airstone running in a saltwater tank? I just like the way it looks and thought a little extra oxygen might be good for the tank too.

I know there will be some salt creep, but can't you just scrape it back down into the tank?

Just curious what you guys experiences or thoughts were?

 

[XtrmCHoPZ]

Of course....although I personally am not a fan of them. I dont see what would be bad about having an airstone in the tank. Its up to you! -xtrm

 

[johno4]

I had one in my 55 for a while. I also like the way they look. There was no problems, just the salt creep.

 

[EdKruzel]

Gases are exchanged by the movement of the top millimeter of water; if you wish to up the oxygen content, you need to move the surface of the water.

Most any marine tank needs good circulation and therefore trying to keep a bubble wall or stream will turn into a system saturated with tiny bubbles.
This will give a cloudy appearance and irritate the livestock.

It is not recommended.

 

[I like Triggers]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the bubbles will in fact irritate the surface, so the top millimeters of water are being turned and freshened. I also wouldn't really think it would irritate the livestock if the water had microbubbles.

 

[Heterodonut]

It is all about surface area for gas exchange, and by using an air stone you are creating much greater surface area. My FOWLR has 200 sq. ft of surface area (20 X 10) and I still use an airstone. The round surface of a bubble has greater surface area that a flat surface. Plus as the bubble hits the surface it disturbs the surface film allowing even greater gas exchange.

 

[cayars]

Keep in mind the airstone doesn't have to be at the bottom of the tank. I've taken the "plastic" airstones and mounted them a couple of inches under the water line and then turned up a much higher level of bubbles then you would normall do if it was at the bottom.

Doing this you still get your surface agitation but with bubbles only at the top few inches of water where the fish normally aren't anyway. The only thing I'd recommend is not to run bubbles in the area where you feed since they will normally go to the surface to grab food.

Just another thought and somewhat unconventional way of doing it.

 

[EdKruzel]

Apparently you didn't get my point; as to the irritation, think reverse circumstances.
You walk around all day every day in a drizzle and can't get dry, water in your eyes, you get stressed and upset and your immune system drops, next you catch a cold and then pneumonia.
(sorry, best analogy I could think of)

my next point wasn't against the bubbles, but as to what your current/turnover should be even in a FO system.
Too many hobbyists run way below what is considered enough flow; this leads to low PH problems, higher nitrates and just all around poor water conditions; if the flow is strong enough then the bubbles would be all over the tank.

Up the circulation and surface agitation and you won't need the bubbles.

 

[sean48183]

Put the hose in with out the stone. You get big bubbles that break the surface as well as create great flow in your tank. I use this in my above tank fuge and it is great. Actually creates waves in the tank as the water bounces around. You will have to wipe off your light lenses everyday from salt creep though.

 

[miniz2k6]

i might try that out sean

 

[Ironsheikh]

no problem with bubble walls --after a while it acts like a protein skimmer and you'll get gunk cemented on your hood though. The bubbles are much finer in salt than freshwater which is a cool look. The fish wont be irratated unless microbubbles are floating around and getting into their lungs, so if you can pull it off its cool.
I think everyone has a bubble wall when they first start out then you'll get tired of it after a while, but do it if you like.

I had a wand stretch the whole back of a 20g when I first started out

 

[PuffersKick]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8609863#post8609863 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sean48183
Put the hose in with out the stone. You get big bubbles that break the surface as well as create great flow in your tank. I use this in my above tank fuge and it is great. Actually creates waves in the tank as the water bounces around. You will have to wipe off your light lenses everyday from salt creep though.

I was actually considering that. My tank has a full glass top though (for me eel) so I think it would be relatively easy to clean thoese when needed.

 

[XtrmCHoPZ]

Ed- I undersatnd what youre saying about the irritation, in theory, I just dont think it would bother the fish that much? My tank is currently medicated and I have lots of air being blasted in the tank via powerheads. The fish dont seem disturbed or bothered at all? Actually they swim in front of the powerhead some times as if they like it?!

I know that you know your stuff very well, Im just wondering why you think that? Have you had experiences before with fish getting stressed out before because of bubble? thanks--xtrm

 

[EdKruzel]

I can only recommend a proper environment, hobbyists will do what they want even if it isn't best for the livestock.
I too like the look, however as I mentioned the tank, even if F/O should have enough varied current that bubbles could not be managed; without that current you either have more work than necessary or less than pristine water conditions.

When the tank is full of micro-bubbles for a long period of time it becomes an unnatural environment; the only bubbles found in the sea are points of heavy surf (natural protein skimming).

Short term exposure is most dangerous to corals and sedentary animals; fish and motile animals can endure quite a bit more.

Long term exposure can form bubbles in the intestinal tract and lead to exterior problems such as fin rot.
Small micro bubbles will form bonds with dissolved proteins in the system (just like a skimmer) and when adhered to a fin will begin to dry the area and allow microbes to attack.
These are the worst case scenarios but a possibility all the same.

 

[55gSW]

Huh....that's really weird. I've had my clown and yellow tang now for 6 years and during this time they've been in tanks with bubble wands, or air stones or even skimmers that were going a bit nuts with the bubbles and never had any problems with their health....biggest problem I've had is salt creep but a tight hood will help with that!

 

[sean48183]

If you've ever swam on any reef you will know waves crashing create micro bubbles from hell. No harm. Just salt creep. Very annoying but if you wipe everyday like I do it's know big deal. Takes 2 minutes.

 

[EdKruzel]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8618547#post8618547 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sean48183
If you've ever swam on any reef you will know waves crashing create micro bubbles from hell. No harm. Just salt creep. Very annoying but if you wipe everyday like I do it's know big deal. Takes 2 minutes.

It's too bad many here cannot comprehend my point or the problems they could avoid which would create a much healthier system.
Short term vs. Long Term???

I am an avid diver and have lived near and on the ocean for many years. I spent three years volunteering time at the Smithsonian Institute Coral Research facility in Panama.

Plenty of micro bubbles in the surf, but almost no fish; the fish run for cover and the second portion of the wave helps clear the bubbles (protein covered) along with other detritus.

Fish can survive micro-bubbles and can even utilize them for helping to clear parasites; this doesn't mean they wish to stay in the surf 24/7.
Another example is UV radiation; fish often swim into the shallows of a lagoon to expose themselves for a
short period of time to rid parasites.
This does not mean that leaving them in a shallow tank without cover and high intensity lights would be okay.
With the exception of lighting conditions (cover, overhangs, etc...) just about any tank has only one condition per parameter; temperature with almost no variance, ph the same, nitrate the same and so on. Therefore if you have a continuous irritation, you risk excess stress and premature death of your livestock.

A protein skimmer goes nuts for a few days or a week (maybe longer) probably not a big deal; stray voltage for a short time, they'll live if they don't carpet surf (#1 cause of fish jumping).

Think natural environment and you may have some of your fish for near 40yrs; a decade is only long term care for a very few species commonly kept.

 

[ralphie16]

EdKruzel,

Many people on here do not care to listen to good advice and will do whatever they want. But I want you to know your advice is tremendously appreciated and I pay double attention when you post.

ok, somebody have any chapstick? my lips are getting sore ;-)

 

[techigirl78]

Thanks Ed! Now I got a reason to tell my fiance when he tries to put in that stupid bubble wall. I never really liked them.

 

[sean48183]

I also dive and have spent time on reefs all over the world and there are lots of fish that spend most all their lives in crazy surf. Especially tangs and parrotfish. Think hawaii(Hananumo Bay) Should you keep microbubbles in your tank all the time. No but more because it looks terrible then it is bad for the fish.

Secondly stray voltage is not the #1 cause for carpet surfers. Fright is the number one reason for carpet surfers. Your going to give everyone around here that has had a carpet surfer the idea there tank is full of stray voltage. I hAve no stray voltage and had 2 carpet surfers before i got an eggcrate lid. They jumped because they were afraid of the other fish or the lights or people making sudden movement by the tank.