Is Floor Support Required for 180G?

[Pittman]

Hey guys,

I have an opportunity to purchase a 180G complete setup but the only concern is if the floor will be able to take the load. Its a new home under construction but its too late to add in additional support for a tank. The floor beams are 2x10s(told this is above code for Canada) and i'm not sure on the spacing (I just know that its built to code).

Any information you guys would have would be a great help.

Thanks,

 

[CreativeGuy]

Would need some additional information to help you.
Can you provide a sketch of how the floor is generally constructed and where the tank is located in relation to the room and end of joists?
Critically, at least several pieces of information of information are needed:
(i) what is the span (the open span) of the joists between the two supports (one likely being the wall
(ii) and the other a beam of either wood or steel)?
(iii) the dimensions of the 180g? (including glass thickness and height of water)
how the stand is constructed to transfer or support the load (e.g. like a table with four legs or a continuous frame like a box)?
(iv) What else is being located as part of it in that foot print? (Is there a sump - size? equipment? quantity of live rock and sand?)

With this information I can try and help you (am an engineer on building construction).

For example, my 600g display tank covers a 30 sq ft foot print, weighs empty 1,600 pounds, the water weighs 5,000 pounds, sand an additional 1,000#, rock 700#, canopy and lights 1,500#, stand over 600-700# = all total over 10,000 pounds. This weight is not normal (exceeding over 300 pounds per square foot) where homes are designed in canada for typical capacities of 10#-20#/sq ft of dead (stationary) load and 30#-50#/sq ft as minimum for code. Loads in excess of this need to be looked at individually. THe above tank could not be supported on the floor structure and the stand had to be supported directly down to the concrete floor (which also was thicker than normal at 7" and over 10 columns were placed on larger bearing plates to disburse the load).

Good luck, hope that helps or I can direct you to some.
Joe from Windsor Ontario area.

 

[Pittman]

Would need some additional information to help you.
Can you provide a sketch of how the floor is generally constructed and where the tank is located in relation to the room and end of joists?
Critically, at least several pieces of information of information are needed:
(i) what is the span (the open span) of the joists between the two supports (one likely being the wall
(ii) and the other a beam of either wood or steel)?
(iii) the dimensions of the 180g? (including glass thickness and height of water)
how the stand is constructed to transfer or support the load (e.g. like a table with four legs or a continuous frame like a box)?
(iv) What else is being located as part of it in that foot print? (Is there a sump - size? equipment? quantity of live rock and sand?)

With this information I can try and help you (am an engineer on building construction).

For example, my 600g display tank covers a 30 sq ft foot print, weighs empty 1,600 pounds, the water weighs 5,000 pounds, sand an additional 1,000#, rock 700#, canopy and lights 1,500#, stand over 600-700# = all total over 10,000 pounds. This weight is not normal (exceeding over 300 pounds per square foot) where homes are designed in canada for typical capacities of 10#-20#/sq ft of dead (stationary) load and 30#-50#/sq ft as minimum for code. Loads in excess of this need to be looked at individually. THe above tank could not be supported on the floor structure and the stand had to be supported directly down to the concrete floor (which also was thicker than normal at 7" and over 10 columns were placed on larger bearing plates to disburse the load).

Good luck, hope that helps or I can direct you to some.
Joe from Windsor Ontario area.

i) I will have to contact the Contractor for this information
ii) Wood
iii) -72" x 24" x 24" Standard(338lbs Dry) not sure glass thickness.
-Continuous Frame Stand
iv) -150lbs of Rock
-130lbs of Sand
-40Gal Sump
-Skimmer, Reactors, Other small equipment and plumbing
-Wooden Canopy with MHs
-Making a sketch of tank placement with respect to basement

Not sure how rock/sand displaces water,IE. if there is 150lbs of rock would it displace 150lbs of water weight? I guess this depends on density of rock.

 

[Pittman]

This is a view of the basement that will be underneath the tank. Lengths aren't very accurate. The tank is where i would like to put in upstairs above what is shown

 

[CreativeGuy]

- Need to show the floor joist direction
- where the joist bear on beams and walls - hence the open "span" of the joist

WATER LOAD: Based on your dimensions there is approx 21 cft water fill volume at 7.48 g/cft = 160g
160g at 8.33 lbs/g = 1325 pounds over 6x2= 12 sq ft implies a water loading of 110 lbs/sq ft.

Incidentals
Tank Dry weight 350#
40g sump @ 10 #/g = 400#
Rock 150#
Sand 130#
Equipment 150#
Hood with Lights 100#

Total Incidentals 1300 pounds or another 110 pounds per square foot for 12 square feet

TOTAL 220 pounds/square foot

Ask your builder what the floor was designed for.

 

[david00061]

contacting the Contractor is a good idea. I bet the joist are going the right way

 

[Reefski's]

since it is the basement under the tank it doesn't seem like it would be that difficult to add a support beam or two under the tank.

 

[Pittman]

its a finished basement as well so i don't have that option.

I will call the contractor shortly to find out.

 

[CreativeGuy]

@Pittman, did you contact your contractor and find out the information?
How are you making out?

 

[Pittman]

@Pittman, did you contact your contractor and find out the information?
How are you making out?

Sorry it took so long, Still never got all the answers i was looking for but this is what i got:

Joist Span: 12'
Spacing: 16" Centers
Flooring: 5/8 Plywood
Direction: Still unknown

 

[TaNuki]

I just went through this with my 180 moving to my house. i have it on the 2nd floor of our 1 yr old home. I contacted the structural engineer who had our blueprints on file and was able to have a lengthy discussion about the tank and the home. He approved me to put the tank on my second floor.

I now have the tank fully set up with water, sand, rock, and the sump, and no issues at all so far.

Not exactly what weight I have, but I am guessing:

Tank/ Stand (acrylic): 500lbs
Water: roughly 1500 lbs, though the rock and sand do subtract from that number
Sand: 180lbs
Rock: 250lbs


I would say I am under 2500lbs total weight.

Anyway, I would get a hold of the structural engineer and find out.

You need to find out about:
Bend Stress/ Tension vs Compression
Deflection
Shear
Hangers
Vert Sheer
Full Bearing


They should know all of that.

 

[Pittman]

CreativeGuy is an engineer and he has graciously offered his expertise. I am just having a hard time getting all the information he is asking for.

 

[TaNuki]

right but YOUR structural engineer will know all of the ins and outs of your specific home. CreativeGuy is of great help, but in the end your engineer should give you all of that info for free and tell you exactly what it can handle.

 

[Pittman]

As far as I know these are just generic plans that our contractor purchased. He has no consultation with engineers.

 

[CreativeGuy]

You gave the span and the spacing, but critically information is still missing as to the joist depth, how the floor assembly is constructed and how the joists are supported on the ends, transfered down to the foundation and footings, and any other site specific conditions which may be a factor.

Tanuki is correct in a engineer is best who can properly evaluate the parameters he identified. His numbers related to the total weight are the same as my estimates above which is a good conformation of approximated load of 2,500 pounds (again, that is dead weight and does not include additional loading of furniture or loads placed upon those few floor joist, the live loads like people and activity around the tank - which may be wise to allow for another 800 pounds of additional loading just for people). Safety is always a primary concern.

Typical floor systems are designed for a maximum dead load of 20 pounds per square foot and based on a 16 foot span and 16" joist spacing potentially only loaded on 2 joists (roughly 3 feet wide), would be 12 feet x 3 feet = 36 square feet x 20 lbs/sf = 720 pounds. Neglecting the live loads as remaining the same with or without the tank. Assuming an approximate dead load as being 2,500 pounds, a standard typically constructed floor joist system would be substantially over loaded. That 720 pound capacity is less than 1/3rd of the required amount. This is just a general assessment. There are many other factors that influence the actual loads such as where the tank is place in relationship to the end of joists, end bearing conditions, other loads or activities in/on the floor system.

I am trying to help, but impossible to do without a thorough and proper evaluation.
Generally speaking (without knowing more information) is that if the floor is built in typical construction installation, it would be substantially inadequate to support the tank load without additional reinforcement.

Will try to help if I can.
Joe

 

[Pittman]

Thanks for all the info (Both of you), I am trying to get all the information I can but the contractor is incredibly hard to deal with and get answers from. Thanks for all your effort and I will keep you posted if I get additional important details.

Thanks again
Sheldon