is it ok to just run actinics a few days a week.
- Thread starter mos90
- Start date
Allmost
New member
jda, what you are describing sounds good, and I agree with it, but its not complete. problem that we fond some years ago, was that Carbon was the limiting factor, so by dosing carbon, you let bacteria grow in sand, rocks, glass and more ... same bacteria you are talking about. nothing else.
dosing carbon, will allow bacteria to grow on every surface. carbon dosing, will just let the same bacteria you are talking about to multiply
instead of being limited. by C.
about the po4 bonding to aragonite, problem is that it will become free again at higher PH ! I had a a thread about it on chemistry forum
dosing carbon, will allow bacteria to grow on every surface. carbon dosing, will just let the same bacteria you are talking about to multiply
instead of being limited. by C. about the po4 bonding to aragonite, problem is that it will become free again at higher PH ! I had a a thread about it on chemistry forum
Allmost
New member
ohh ! I would remove the po4 remover or just not replace it anymore.
you are dosing vinegar, let it take care of Po4
Allmost
New member
id do 5% water change every week or every other week, to replenish elements.
I find this to be more important in Bacterioplankton systems, I assume due to larger number of bacteria, which in turn might use certain untestable elements more rapidly.
keep the GAC and renew it every month too. and dont use too much or use less if you use a potent brand, as it might pale out corals. again with bacterioplankton I think GAC is a must, as the bacteria population could make water yellow. for example if you use ROX ... use half, if you use Seachem matrix, use 1 cup per 100 gallons.
I find this to be more important in Bacterioplankton systems, I assume due to larger number of bacteria, which in turn might use certain untestable elements more rapidly.
keep the GAC and renew it every month too. and dont use too much or use less if you use a potent brand, as it might pale out corals. again with bacterioplankton I think GAC is a must, as the bacteria population could make water yellow. for example if you use ROX ... use half, if you use Seachem matrix, use 1 cup per 100 gallons.
You are growing oxic bacteria with the carbon with most likely the easiest place that they can find to grow - the water column and on the surface of things. I am talking about the anoxic bacteria that would grow to consume the nitrates in the sand and deeper into the rock. It has not finished developing to equilibrium because you are manipulating the cycle.
The phosphate can certainly come free again if you melt the aragonite (lower PH) - there was some issues with CaRX material from the ocean that was REALLY high in phosphate when melted. This can be an issue with tanks that might have low alk issues needing the carbonate to melt to buffer - but these tanks already have SERIOUS issues beyond what we are talking about. It can also be an issue in super deep sandbeds where the bacterial activity produces so much acidic waste that the aragonite melts down there. In most cases, it won't melt much (it will some) unless you do something dumb like try and use old substrate in a CO2 based calcium reactor.
Most tanks don't need more bacteria. Enough is enough and it grows on it's own to equilibrium in your tank, if you will let it. If I did dose carbon, there is nothing in my tank for the new ones to consume. How is the N and P going to get any lower? Some new oxic bacteria would grow and strip the remaining slight N and P from the system and out-compete the coral. This would be bad and the coral would suffer. Right now, the tank is at equilibrium. In about 20 years, I have never needed to dose carbon in a reef tank with aragonite to keep N and P at low, undetectable levels.
I have dosed carbon on large FO tanks to get the N and P down, but never to maintain. It was very effective and made for some skim mate that I needed to wear a mask to clean - eventually put kalk in the cup on a great tip from somebody on here. I suppose if your reef was really a FO tank with some coral, then it might be a good idea.
If you stop dosing, your N might go up a bit in the near term, but in a month, or so, it will be at/near zero. If you slowly cut the vinegar back to zero and cut back on feeding a bit, the N might not go up at all while the anoxic bacteria finish developing. Soon after that the PO4 will start to drop and eventually be undetectable too. It works in most tanks. If you are bare bottom, used silica sand, lots of GFO, Lantanium, etc. then it won't work because you either used a different system or are interrupting the cycle.
I am not saying that you cannot be REALLY successful dosing carbon. I am just saying that, IMO, you will need to handle the equilibrium yourself instead of letting the tank do what it can on it's own. If you need to "catch back up" or adjust for some temporary issue, then I think that it can be really good. Otherwise, I would not do it. To each their own.
There is another guy on here and locally that I helped with these same issues. Both have reported much better results after they quit the vinegar - colors are coming back and N and P are dropping naturally. I can hook you up with them if you want to discuss things in private.
The phosphate can certainly come free again if you melt the aragonite (lower PH) - there was some issues with CaRX material from the ocean that was REALLY high in phosphate when melted. This can be an issue with tanks that might have low alk issues needing the carbonate to melt to buffer - but these tanks already have SERIOUS issues beyond what we are talking about. It can also be an issue in super deep sandbeds where the bacterial activity produces so much acidic waste that the aragonite melts down there. In most cases, it won't melt much (it will some) unless you do something dumb like try and use old substrate in a CO2 based calcium reactor.
Most tanks don't need more bacteria. Enough is enough and it grows on it's own to equilibrium in your tank, if you will let it. If I did dose carbon, there is nothing in my tank for the new ones to consume. How is the N and P going to get any lower? Some new oxic bacteria would grow and strip the remaining slight N and P from the system and out-compete the coral. This would be bad and the coral would suffer. Right now, the tank is at equilibrium. In about 20 years, I have never needed to dose carbon in a reef tank with aragonite to keep N and P at low, undetectable levels.
I have dosed carbon on large FO tanks to get the N and P down, but never to maintain. It was very effective and made for some skim mate that I needed to wear a mask to clean - eventually put kalk in the cup on a great tip from somebody on here. I suppose if your reef was really a FO tank with some coral, then it might be a good idea.
If you stop dosing, your N might go up a bit in the near term, but in a month, or so, it will be at/near zero. If you slowly cut the vinegar back to zero and cut back on feeding a bit, the N might not go up at all while the anoxic bacteria finish developing. Soon after that the PO4 will start to drop and eventually be undetectable too. It works in most tanks. If you are bare bottom, used silica sand, lots of GFO, Lantanium, etc. then it won't work because you either used a different system or are interrupting the cycle.
I am not saying that you cannot be REALLY successful dosing carbon. I am just saying that, IMO, you will need to handle the equilibrium yourself instead of letting the tank do what it can on it's own. If you need to "catch back up" or adjust for some temporary issue, then I think that it can be really good. Otherwise, I would not do it. To each their own.
There is another guy on here and locally that I helped with these same issues. Both have reported much better results after they quit the vinegar - colors are coming back and N and P are dropping naturally. I can hook you up with them if you want to discuss things in private.
Allmost
New member
Sorry jda, but the info is wrong.
its the same bacteria that we grow when dosing Organic carbon. for more info please look up articles on advanced aquarist.
Link :Here.
we have found that in aquaria, organic carbon is limiting. meaning the bacteria that live deep in sand and rocks, are limited by the amount of Carbon they have to grow and multiply
same Idea as yours they are just limited by C and cant reach equilibrium. Murray Camp explains this better Here.
aragonite can give off po4 in high PH ... confirmed by Dr. Randy Holmes.
now if you dont like carbon dosing and think its not needed ... then so be it, thats your opinion
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