Billybeau1
Premium Member
I agree with jd. Pp, if you've had 3 heater failures in a year, I would have a qualified electricin check your circuits. You may be overloading your receptacle causing premature heater failures.
Is there any such thing as a reliable heater?
- Thread starter ppurcell
- Start date
Fuppets
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9985605#post9985605 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hansnfrans
"I wasn't sure what was causing it, so, one by one I unplugged items from the powers strip and stuck my hand back into the water each time until I finally unplugged the heater and then I didn't get zapped (process of elimination). I think I shocked myself 7 or 8 times before I got down to the heater.
Now that is funny! You should have caught this on video. Had you done it the other way around, unplug everything and plug one at a time in, you would have only shocked yourself one additional time. But then the story would not be as fun to tell.
I have a 250w Jager that came with my set up that sticks off sometimes I have to hit it to get it working. I bought a 400 theo as a back up.
jdieck
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9986533#post9986533 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fuppets
Had you done it the other way around, unplug everything and plug one at a time in, you would have only shocked yourself one additional time. But then the story would not be as fun to tell.
LOFR :lol:
I think I am laughing so much because probably I would have done it the same way he did! (With a meter of course)
ppurcell
New member
Jose, thanks for the primer. What you described is exactly what I intend to do. I had it setup with the heaters set for 81 and the controller for 79. But if a heater shorts out, it takes the controller with it. So it requires two controllers and I only have one right now.
Billybeau1, I had a licensed electrician install both of the two dedicated (not shared with any other recepticals) 15 amp circuits that run my tank and neither circuit is even close to running at capacity. The sum total of all of my devices on the two circuits is about 16 amps and the load is pretty evenly distributed.
Billybeau1, I had a licensed electrician install both of the two dedicated (not shared with any other recepticals) 15 amp circuits that run my tank and neither circuit is even close to running at capacity. The sum total of all of my devices on the two circuits is about 16 amps and the load is pretty evenly distributed.
jdieck
New member
I see what you mean, the short will burn the fuse in the controlled outlets turning off the eight of them.
A cheaper way to prevent that than to get an independent controller wmight be to install a 2 Amp fuse in the power line of each heater, that way the heater fuse will burn before the controller box 15 Amp fuse. Even better, have the controller actuate a relay that in turn connect the fused heaters this way the controller outlet will only see the relay's load and will never see a spike in current from a shorted heater.
Billybeau1
Premium Member
Thats good Pp. Just making sure. You obviously have the power thing under control. Many don't even think about it and is why I asked. :thumbsup:
You must just have bad luck with heaters.
What wattage have you been buying ?
You must just have bad luck with heaters.
What wattage have you been buying ?
ppurcell
New member
I have a 100, 200 & 300. Right now all three (both after this morning) are connected to the RK2 and are on the same circuit. I had planned to get the two outlet expansion unit and put the 100 & 200 on the other circuit and/or add a single stage controller for the heaters on the other circuit. But, as I found out this morning, if the GFI the RK2 is connected to pops then the controller is off and so is everything connected to it. So the only solution is to have two RK2's one on each circuit and have enough redundancy built into the system so that if one RK2 goes off-line, the remaining RK2 will keep enough stuff running that nothing bad will happen to the tank.
I was thinking that I just need a single stage Ranco or a Medusa; but in reality, just about any device that is in contact with water can pop the GFI so just adding a dedicated heater controller is a half measure at best.
I was thinking that I just need a single stage Ranco or a Medusa; but in reality, just about any device that is in contact with water can pop the GFI so just adding a dedicated heater controller is a half measure at best.
Billybeau1
Premium Member
Is it absolutely necessary to have the heater run through the RK2 ?
If the heater is on it's own circuit, a failure can't shut down the system.
Just thinking out loud
If the heater is on it's own circuit, a failure can't shut down the system.
Just thinking out loud
ppurcell
New member
one of the "advantages" of a controller is that it can control the temperature. But even if I don't put the heaters on the RK2, if the circuit goes down, then the RK2 is down too. So in the case of the problem I had this morning even if I had the heater plugged directly into the wall, I would have had the same result if the RK2 is on the same circuit with the heater that shorted out.
I think the only way to prevent that problem is to have every device in it's own GFI protected outlet and have all of the outlets wired in parallel. And then the only way to be sure is to do something like Jose suggests with relays and fuses for each device. Or as you say, use dedicated circuits for every device, but I'm not willing to use up that much real estate in my breaker box.
I think the only way to prevent that problem is to have every device in it's own GFI protected outlet and have all of the outlets wired in parallel. And then the only way to be sure is to do something like Jose suggests with relays and fuses for each device. Or as you say, use dedicated circuits for every device, but I'm not willing to use up that much real estate in my breaker box.
Billybeau1
Premium Member
:lol: Yes real estate is expensive these days.
One other thing to think about. I have NEVER had a heater trip a breaker. Stick on a few times (overheating the tank) or not come on (cooling the tank). But never short a circuit.
As much as we try to protect 100%, sometimes you just have to trust the law of averages.
One other thing to think about. I have NEVER had a heater trip a breaker. Stick on a few times (overheating the tank) or not come on (cooling the tank). But never short a circuit.
As much as we try to protect 100%, sometimes you just have to trust the law of averages.
jdieck
New member
If you add a third GFCI you shall be OK.
Try combining things i a way that if one goes another one may go with it without much trouble. Say lights with chiller. If lights go you may not need the chiller.
Circulation pump with UV unit if the unit is fed by the pump, if the pump goes you do not want the UV unit without flow but you do not want the closed loop on the same GFCI than the return pump, if one goes you still want circulation and so on.
Try combining things i a way that if one goes another one may go with it without much trouble. Say lights with chiller. If lights go you may not need the chiller.
Circulation pump with UV unit if the unit is fed by the pump, if the pump goes you do not want the UV unit without flow but you do not want the closed loop on the same GFCI than the return pump, if one goes you still want circulation and so on.
hansnfrans
New member
"Had you done it the other way around, unplug everything and plug one at a time in, you would have only shocked yourself one additional time. But then the story would not be as fun to tell."
Awww man, I feel so stupid now. I didn't even consider that
Awww man, I feel so stupid now. I didn't even consider that
ppurcell
New member
This is absolutely incredible. I lost another heater tonight, possibly two (I can't tell if the both are toast I'll need to test them tomorrow - too tired and annoyed to do it tonight.)
Apparently it quite at exactly 7:00PM because that is the last time I received any data from the RK2 into r33ft00l (dang censorship).
Fortunately, I decided to go downstairs and check the tank before going to bed. Same symptoms as last time, GFCI tripped. So, I unplug everything and plug each thing in one at a time except the heaters. So, I got to put the heater I got from jcm1229 (thanks, John) to work tonight... glad I had that as a spare!
I think this accounts for every heater that was subjected to RK2 version 2.2 firmware bug. I guess I'll know if the bug was the cause of the heater failures pretty soon. If another heater croaks in the next 3 months, then it wasn't the bug... If they keep working seems like pretty good evidence that thousands of power cycles isn't good for the longevity of a heater.
Apparently it quite at exactly 7:00PM because that is the last time I received any data from the RK2 into r33ft00l (dang censorship).
Fortunately, I decided to go downstairs and check the tank before going to bed. Same symptoms as last time, GFCI tripped. So, I unplug everything and plug each thing in one at a time except the heaters. So, I got to put the heater I got from jcm1229 (thanks, John) to work tonight... glad I had that as a spare!
I think this accounts for every heater that was subjected to RK2 version 2.2 firmware bug. I guess I'll know if the bug was the cause of the heater failures pretty soon. If another heater croaks in the next 3 months, then it wasn't the bug... If they keep working seems like pretty good evidence that thousands of power cycles isn't good for the longevity of a heater.
treejohnny
New member
do you run grounding probe ?........i have had juice in tank many times.......never tripped a GFI yet........no probe
treejohnny
New member
i understand completley.....but maybe only put probe in tank when your gonna put hands in tank ?
maybe there is a few things putting juice in tank......if you could unplug everything and use meter from ground in outlet and other end in tank water.......you could find out how much juice each piece is putting in tank.....as you plug them in one at a time....just trying to find out the problem you have.....as i am sure not everyone is blowing up that many heaters with controller
maybe there is a few things putting juice in tank......if you could unplug everything and use meter from ground in outlet and other end in tank water.......you could find out how much juice each piece is putting in tank.....as you plug them in one at a time....just trying to find out the problem you have.....as i am sure not everyone is blowing up that many heaters with controller
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