Is this Ich?

[Young Salty]

Hi all, lurker here and still new to marines.

I have a 450 liter tank set up with artificial seawater (RODI and Red Sea Coral Pro).

60kg live rock

Cycled and 9 weeks in with 10% WC per week.

2 Occilaris Clowns and a Lawnmower Blenny were in QT for 3 weeks and looked great so against all my better judgement and will power I transferred them into the main tank on Saturday.

I've had a flame angel on hold at LFS for 3 weeks. Picked it up Sunday and instead of putting it into quarantine I talked myself not taking the risk of straight into display. No, not risk, lets call it what it is - a GAMBLE.

As soon as I'd released it, (properly drip acclimated), I regretted it and kicked myself for rushing things again.

Anyway, about 30 minutes later I noticed what looked like a white spot on its dorsal fin.

I've been researching all night an cursing myself for letting my impatience once again get the better of me.

The angel looks very healthy, it was shy for a few hours but came out to feed straight away and is swimming through the caves picking at rocks no problem. It hides when I'm stood in front of the tank, but if I stand away a few feet it comes out and has a good swim/explore, and picks at rocks.

No sign of erratic swimming or trying to flick itself against rock work.

There is only ONE spot, it's very bright white and almost perfectly round and it on the very top edge of the dorsal fin, about half way along. Tough to get a photo at this stage as he's camera shy and hides back in the rock.

My question is, what are the chances of this being ich? Does it often show as only one single spot? It seems to be in an odd place at the very top edge of the fin.

I don't think it's lymphocystis based on photo's form the net.

As I say, it is only one single spot, very white and almost fluoresces under the light in the way that a blowing around grain of substrate does. Part of me really, REALLY wants to believe it is a single grain of my coral sand substrate that has made it's way there, (which is plausible I suppose).

I'll try and get a photo if I can, but thought I'd ask how often you see only a single white spot with ich, which may help me work out the chances of it being that?

Feel free to lambast me for ignoring my QT procedure, I absolutely deserve it. I am thoroughly ashamed of myself for rushing things after I promised myself I wouldn't and I may be about to pay the price for it.

Doubtful I'd be able to catch these fish for QT, they are small, exceedingly fast and my rock work consists of two towers with many, many caves.

Cheers.

 

[Deinonych]

Hard to say without pictures. It could be lymphocystis given its location. How is the fish behaving? Any scratching against rocks, head flicking or rapid breathing? Is it eating?

 

[Young Salty]

Hard to say without pictures. It could be lymphocystis given its location. How is the fish behaving? Any scratching against rocks, head flicking or rapid breathing? Is it eating?

I'll try and get a pic tonight.

No rapid breathing, it's eating well and picking at rocks, no scratching or flicking itself at anything.

Thanks.

 

[snorvich]

Just as an FYI, the longer a fish stays at the LFS, the greater the probability of it having a parasite of one form or another. The odds increase if the LFS runs a low level (non-therapeutic dose) of copper.

 

[Young Salty]

Just as an FYI, the longer a fish stays at the LFS, the greater the probability of it having a parasite of one form or another. The odds increase if the LFS runs a low level (non-therapeutic dose) of copper.

Bummer, never thought of it that way. I'm really annoyed at myself, I wanted to do things properly from the start and even had my QT ready to take the Flame yet stupidly I still talked myself into putting it straight into the display. Never EVER again. I'm going to print this post out and stick a copy in my sump cabinet and on the QT tank. Next time I have the bright idea of skipping process and rushing things I will re-read this and pull myself up on my stupidity.

Back to the topic though, does ich usually present as one single spot? I know it can, but I'm still clinging to the hope that being one spot it may not be ich (call it denial if you will).

Thanks.

 

[Upstate GTI]

ich could be one spot. Then it will disappear and a few weeks later the fish will have a bunch of spots. The parasite drops off at night and will colonize where your fish sleeps then they all hop back on when they hatch a few weeks later. One spot does not necessarily mean ich though. I'd say pull him out quick and qt him if you have the tank. Why take the chance?

 

[Young Salty]

ich could be one spot. Then it will disappear and a few weeks later the fish will have a bunch of spots. The parasite drops off at night and will colonize where your fish sleeps then they all hop back on when they hatch a few weeks later. One spot does not necessarily mean ich though. I'd say pull him out quick and qt him if you have the tank. Why take the chance?

Catching him is the problem, I've no idea how to even begin trying to get him out without completely destroying the tank - two big bommie stacks, one each side, full of caves.

 

[Young Salty]

So, I tried to move him in to QT tonight, no chance. No way I'll be able to catch him without a complete tear down.

I did manage to get some photo's though, out of about a 1000 shots I managed to get one of each side that shows it.

There is still only one, it hasn't grown since yesterday (30 hours), if anything it may be slightly smaller.

Ignore the other dots, they are not on the fish, that's food in the water to get him in the open to photo. He is completely clean of any spots/marks aside from this one and its actually right on the very top edge of his fin, not on his body, just looks like it's on his body when his fins retracted.

The spot is a lot brighter and sharper than it appears in the photo, it also looks bigger in the photos due to the fish moving and the spot blurring, it's actually quite small in reality as the fish is only small too.

Still feeding well, no issues with breathing or scratching or erratic swimming etc.

Any ideas?

What is the longest an ich spot would stay attached before dropping off? Would it be fair to say the longer it stays on, the less likely it is to be ich?

Thanks.





Thanks.

 

[Deinonych]

I would keep an eye on the spot before resorting to a tank tear down. If it disappears overnight in the new few days, it's likely ich. If it stays in place for more than a week, it's likely not ich. If you do have to catch your fish, I've had great success with an Aqua Medic fish trap.

 

[snorvich]

What I see is lymphocystis although the image is not definitive. Adding selcon or equivalent will help long term if this is the issue.

 

[PMazz]

You could also try the clear netting that people use as a screen top for jumpers. You blanket your rock work with the netting and leave a little opening on one side. Once the fish is in front of the netting close it on him. You can grab the netting on ebay relatively cheap. (less then $20)

 

[Nina51]

What I see is lymphocystis although the image is not definitive. Adding selcon or equivalent will help long term if this is the issue.

this was my thought, exactly. see, steve? look how much i learned from you!

to the OP, i went through this with my kole tang while he was in qt. at steve's suggestion, i started using selcon and vitachem in everything i fed my tank. the lympho was dramatically better in a very short time and within a week or so, every single spot was completely gone.

good luck, i know how the temptation can overrule your good sense. i have a female red velvet fairy wrasse in qt with another 10 days to go and it's driving me INSANE!

 

[snorvich]

this was my thought, exactly. see, steve? look how much i learned from you!

Thanks. My goal is to have helped facilitate the creation of lots of experienced (experts?) folks.

to the OP, i went through this with my kole tang while he was in qt. at steve's suggestion, i started using selcon and vitachem in everything i fed my tank. the lympho was dramatically better in a very short time and within a week or so, every single spot was completely gone.

I advocate nutritional supplementation going forward, especially for folks that do not feed a large variety of different foods. Vibrantly healthy fish can live a very long time in our tanks!

good luck, i know how the temptation can overrule your good sense. i have a female red velvet fairy wrasse in qt with another 10 days to go and it's driving me INSANE!

an ounce of prevention is worth a whole lot of "cure". Especially as tanks get larger.

 

[Young Salty]

Thanks everyone, I'll keep this thread updated and head online to find some selcon, (I've never heard of it before, still very new to all this and there doesn't seem to be the same amount of "things" here in Australia that you guys have).

What is in selcon? If I can't find it I'll see what the Aussie equivalent is.

An online store owed me an outstanding refund for a cancelled order so I got them to send me some Polyp Labs Medic in case it is white spot, it should arrive today. Most people say it's snake oil, but there's been enough anecdotal evidence to at least give it a shot.

Cheers.

 

[snorvich]

Thanks everyone, I'll keep this thread updated and head online to find some selcon, (I've never heard of it before, still very new to all this and there doesn't seem to be the same amount of "things" here in Australia that you guys have).

What is in selcon? If I can't find it I'll see what the Aussie equivalent is.

An online store owed me an outstanding refund for a cancelled order so I got them to send me some Polyp Labs Medic in case it is white spot, it should arrive today. Most people say it's snake oil, but there's been enough anecdotal evidence to at least give it a shot.

Cheers.

Selcon is a vitamin supplemental soak for food. Vita-chem is another I recommend. There are more. I cannot say what is available in Oz.

 

[Nina51]

selcon ingredients (from the label)

Selco Highly Unsaturated
Fatty Acids; Marine lipids 200mg/g

Vitamin B12 Cyanocobalamin 240 mcg

see if you can also find (or order) some Vitachem (by Boyd Enterprises).

i use this in frozen/thawed mysis, occasionally brine shrimp, formula 2, arcti-pods and rod's food. don't know if there's any particular taste to either of them but my fish all go nuts for any food soaked in either.

eta: steve, we were posting at the same time.

 

[snorvich]

eta: steve, we were posting at the same time.

I am sure that means something. :love1: I think the fatty acids are important.

 

[Young Salty]

So, I get home tonight and the spot is still there, although I'm sure it was smaller. I'd convinced myself today to stop worrying and just watch what happens. As I, watching the angel she goes and flicks her flank against the central weir, bad sign.

I watch for another 15 minutes and she did it again!

So, before I had chance to talk myself out of it, I tore the tank scape down, partitioned one end off with an egg crate divider and netted her. Took an hour, then another couple of hours to rebuild the scape.

She's now in the qt tank and the spot is still there, although I'm sure it's smaller.

I'm too tired to think about what to do next, it's bed time. She'll stay in the qt for min. 6 weeks (possibly go hypo? But might wait to make sure it is definitely ich first).

Problem is, what to do with the two occys and blenny in the main tank? They are fine now but the angel has been in there for almost 2 days, if she had ich there's every chance it's now in my system.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

 

[coverdog]

If I was convinced one fish had ich I would take them all out. The clowns should be easy to catch when they are sleeping, at least they have been for me.

 

[snorvich]

If it is ich, all fish in the tank must be treated and the tank left fallow for 12 weeks ideally.