it looks like brook is killing me

[Steve_B]

Every Angel I have introduced into my tank in the last year has come down with what looks to be brook. My queen was showing slight signs of it a couple of months ago, but I figured if I keep my water as pristine as possible things would be OK. I make RODI water, it is strictly a fish only 225 tank , no live rock or any other living thing aside from the fish. I make water changes and keep the nitrate around 10. I have introduced maybe 4 angels’ all at the same time (the tank is way under stocked, so multiple new fish are no problem) in the last 6 months and they have all fallen to this problem. None of the other fish in the tank are effected, just angels. My queen is still going strong, although it has shown some patches on one side and now is beginning to show on the other side. I used Formalin on my last queen about a year ago and figured about 6 months later (6 months ago) it would be safe to bring some angles back in. Well it must be in the tank being carried by one of the other fish showing no signs of it. I treated my last queen with the formalin dip spelled out in Seascope with a 37 % solution exactly as it stated in the article. The queen started to bleed while in the bath. It expired shortly afterwards. I have read nothing as far as a cure, aside from Formalin. So I guess I will just watch this queen snuff it, because I won’t risk formalin again.
Is there any other viable less caustic agent to treat this, other than formaldehyde that anybody is aware of.
It really sucks when things go this way, as opposed to the delight of a healthy tank with things going well, which I have experienced for many years in the past.

The end,

Downhearted IN Chicago

 

[TerryB]

I am not convinced that your fish have brooklynella. Please describe the symptoms in detail. Do you quarantine your fish before adding them to the display tank? Do you know what uronema looks like?

Unusual that your angel began to hemorrhage in a formalin dip. What was the salinity of the water in the dip? Did you use formalin every third day for a total of three dips?

TerryB

 

[Steve_B]

I will get some very high resolution pictures and post them today or tomorrow. I will also address the other questions posed. I have a very hectic schedule today, thus the delay.

 

[Steve_B]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9277497#post9277497 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TerryB
I am not convinced that your fish have brooklynella. Please describe the symptoms in detail. Do you quarantine your fish before adding them to the display tank? Do you know what uronema looks like?

Unusual that your angel began to hemorrhage in a formalin dip. What was the salinity of the water in the dip? Did you use formalin every third day for a total of three dips?

TerryB

I have never heard of uronema. In the past I never isolated, for the many years I have kept saltwater fish until recently. The only thing the isolation did was to keep a healthy angel in and shortly after going into the 225 went down hill and met their demise.
This present problem (I think) started when I took a blue tang from one of my other tanks it had been in the other tank for at least 6 months. I put it into my 225 about a year ago or some timeline like that. In the smaller tank I transfered the blue tang from it was always swimming around very actively, had a good diet but displayed a few negative symptoms. It developed HLLE on its cheeks and had a ragged tail and high respiration. I caulked up the tail as being picked on and respiration from the rapid swimming. I also thought the hole in the head from the stress of the aforementioned
I figured that because it ate so well for that length of time and none of the other fish had symptoms, it was safe to go into my big tank.
That’s when the nightmare began. I have a big fat Naso that isn't effected, my Queen is infected, and the 3 other small angles that went in shortly before the queen. The small angels developed facial erosion quit eating and died. I followed your instructions in Sea scope EXACTLY as spelled out on my first queen that died shortly after the first dip.

The first 2 shots are the present state of the “whatever it is” thing.
The rest are the middle stages of my first Queen that died. Its hard to see in my present queen, but trust me, this one will end up like my first, the progression is identical

 

[TOURKID]

brook kills the fish within 48 hours.

 

[Steve_B]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9298004#post9298004 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TOURKID
brook kills the fish within 48 hours.

This is patches that appear and multiply. I have read the same thing about rapid death from brook, but this seems to defy explaination.

 

[TerryB]

Of course, it is impossible to get a positive ID from a photo, but it does not appear to be brooklynella. Brooklynella is usually most concentrated around the head and gills. One of the symptoms isa lot of stringy mucus. Typically with uronema the fish would get some redness under the lifted scales. Uronema is somewhat opportunistic (not an obligate parasite that only feeds on a host fish). It can feed on other things and with the right conditions it can be in the tank without infecting the fish. Uronema can be very contagious, spread slowly or remain on just one fish. It depends on the health of the fish and the conditions in the tank.

I would try treating the fish with nitrofurazone in a quarantine tank for 3 to 5 days. Nitrofurazone is effective against some common bacterial infections and it also seems to help with uronema. Try it on one of the more obviously infected fish first. If things go well then try it on all the other sick fish.

Itis obvious that the fish will be having difficulty with osmoregulation because the mucus/scale/skin barrier is compromised. I would add some StressGuard or some other product that serves as a temporary mucus barrier in the treatment tank.

TerryB

 

[Steve_B]

Thanks Terry, I appreciate the advice.

Steve

 

[NanoLurker]

nitrofurazone does appear to be effective with uronema, but it generally doesn't kill all the protozoa at once, it interferes with the organisms ability to metabolize and reproduce. if a formalin bath is out, i would consider giving a one hour paraguard bath (dosed per label in seperate container) then use nitrofurazone as either a long term bath or short term immersion. i tried treating a fish with nitrofurazone alone and lost him, the others i combined treatments and they survived. if you have access to a microscope or a vet that is willing, see if you can get a scrapping and look at the sample under the microscope. also, if you can get a fresh fecal sample take a look at it as well. i've also used metronidazole gut loaded in food when the organism is present in fecal samples.

good luck.

 

[Steve_B]

Thanks Nano, do you have a microscope? If so, how do you identify what you're looking at, and how do you eradicate it from you’re entire system?

 

[Steve_B]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9302160#post9302160 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TerryB
Typically with uronema the fish would get some redness under the lifted scales.
TerryB

I went back and read your response again. There are no lifted scales, if you look closely. The effected areas have what appears to be a small patch of something on top of the scales.

 

[NanoLurker]

hi steve,

yes, i have a microscope. as a hobbyist, getting good pictures and i.d.'s is the hard part my avatar is a picture of a vorticella that came off one of my fish.

honestly, if it is a scutociliata like uronema, there's no way to eradicate it from your system without breaking it down completely, sterilizing, and starting over. i gave up trying and now just work on keeping organics low, fish well fed and stress free.

i'm more familiar with the external/internal symptoms of uronema on scaleless fish (i.e. seahorses) which is why i was inquiring if you had anyway to get a sample from the affected area. without it we're sort of shot-gunning treatment and trying to rule out different organisms.