Itchy Flame Angel

[flyfisher2]

I could use a little advice at this point...

I purchased several fish two weeks ago today:

Flame angel
Royal Gramma
Fire Fish
Yellow Goby

I put them in a quarantine tank and I noticed a spot on the Fire Fish the next day followed by a spot on the angel two days later. I began treatment with Cupramine and have been maintaining a level of about .25 for the last 10 days.
The fish are eating and appear healthy ( no spots). I just noticed the angel picking at the heater cable and then scratch his gill against it.
Should I be concerned? Is this the effect of the Cupramine or a secondary infection? I've read in other forums that the copper itself can irritate the gill membranes. I anticipated release in another week or so but now I'm not sure what course of action to take. Oh... the PH and ammonia and nitrite are all within acceptable parameters.
Thanks in advance for your responses.

 

[Triton_Z]

It could be flukes as they are fairly common and cause scratching behaviors. I treat my fish in QT with Hikari's PraziPro for flukes. It's easy to dose and can be typically used with Copper treatment.

I would plan on a longer QT time than a few weeks. One month should be the minimum time in QT. Two months is better.

Here's a good thread to read :

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1260067

 

[flyfisher2]

Thanks for the info on flukes, Triton. Will hold them longer and observe closely. Can I treat while I'm using the Cupramine?

 

[flyfisher2]

Could really use some advice on this one...All four quarantined fish appear in good health.Eating and swimming about with clean fins, etc. Except the flame which went nuts twitching and scratching about four days ago.!4 days into treatment.
I called Seachem and they told me that it could either be the parasites or the copper. So I did a large water change and immediately saw an improvement. No more scratching. I do still see a twitch here and there. Fish is eating and looks fine other than the marks from scratching on the coral around his head.
The fire fish still has the one dot on his side that I noticed from day one (21 days ago). I asked at my LFS and they don't believe it's anything and they are advising I put the fish in the main display.

I'm worried that the long term exposure to the copper will do the Flame Angel in, and could that dot on the Firefish still be a parasite after 21 days? I read that the average time the parasite stays on the host is 7 days.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I agree with Triton_Z; IMO, all fish should be de-wormed in the QT with Prazi-Pro.
Fish should be in QT at least 6 weeks; ich can easily be present, but not visible, longer than that. I'd read the ich stickies above; once you understand the ich life cycle----the time period makes sense. Cupramine at .25 is borderline; I think it works most of the time at that level; but Cu only kills free-swimming ich and your QT has other forms of the parasite now. (assuming ich was there in the first place). Flame Angels are usually very sensitive to copper. Tank transfer would be my first choice to treat a Flame with ich---and I'm a big fan of Cupramine. BTW, I'm glad you discovered SeaChem's tech help, they're great. If a Mfg doesn't have good tech support, I don't but their stuff.

 

[Lorenz725]

+1 on the prazi-pro my flame and potters angle went though 6 weeks of QT and I treated them a few times with the prazi-pro. As long as you got them eating you should be ok. Good luck!

 

[flyfisher2]

Thanks, I'll get the Prazi-pro. My LFS doesn't stock it so I'll have to order online. I've been reading the other threads on ich and trying to make sense of it all. These 'super ich' that go for months is defying everything else I've read in the past. Even Seachem told me to go three weeks. I rather be safe than sorry so I'll got the extra time. I still believe the twitching is as result of the copper but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Thanks, I'll get the Prazi-pro. My LFS doesn't stock it so I'll have to order online. I've been reading the other threads on ich and trying to make sense of it all. These 'super ich' that go for months is defying everything else I've read in the past. Even Seachem told me to go three weeks. I rather be safe than sorry so I'll got the extra time. I still believe the twitching is as result of the copper but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

I've used copper on literally hundreds of fish over many years. For what its worth, I've never seen "twitching" as a side effect. IMO & IME, if a fish is eating; its handling the copper just fine.
RE: The "super ich". No matter what we do, there is no way to reach the "100% certainty" of being ich-free. Regardless of all the info; the longer the better. This excellent sticky, by Snorvich, really makes the point, IMO. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2041951

 

[flyfisher2]

Thanks for that input MrTuskfish. I will take your years of experience with copper treatment into much consideration.
I could only go by what transpired and the fish's reaction when I did the water change. The response was instant. No more scratching ...At all! And the twitching has gone away. As I mentioned in a previous post, Sea Chem gave me a very broad range when I explained the symptoms. It was either the disease or the treatment. I will extend the quarantine as recommended by you and Snorvich (excellent information, I read it last night) and will also add the Prazi-Pro. Again thanks.