Its another "dumb" question

[palmer373]

Alright folks I have a "dumb" question for you. I am collecting equipment for a 75 or 90g reef tank. I plan on having either a lot of small fish or a few 'big' fish (yes I'll stay within whats logical lol). I want to QT all those fish but I dont have a QT big enough, I had 2 10gs but one is now a nano and the other is my aiptasia remover tank (peppermint shrimp ). I was curious if when I set up the tank and its cycled and everything, could I add the all fish I want then hypo the whole tank for the 8+ week period? It will be a BB tank. I was figuring I'd take a risk of having a fish or two (or more) die from ich or somethign else while I'm collecting all the fish I want but it would be easier than buying a whole nother tank right now just to QT. Thoughts? I know it would be best to get a fish and hypo then add but thatll take longer than hypoing the DT if I bought 1 fish at a time (and thus multiple hypo tanks!).

Thanks for the help, I'm just curious if this is a smart idea or not.

 

[cr500_af]

I realize that my opinion isn't gospel, but:
1. Hypo is not a guarantee to kill ich 100% as far as I know.
2. When you QT, you are guarding against more than just ich. Not every fish disease is a parasite. There are plenty of problems out there that hypo won't help with.
3. Personally, I think a QT is worth its weight in gold. A cheap QT setup shouldn't run you more than a nice fish or two if you look around for the stuff used.

 

[b0bab0ey]

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're wanting to add all the fish after the tank is cycled and then treat them all w/hypo to prevent ich?

First problem I see is there's no way a newly cycled tank would be able to handle that kinda bioload. A newly cycled tank would only have enough bacteria to handle a small fish or two. As you slowly add more fish, your bacteria levels slowly rise as well. It's a supply and demand thing.

The other problem, as cr500_af said, is that ich is just one of the many fish diseases you have to worry about. And hypo doesn't do anything for bacterial/fungal/virus.

If you absolutely can't QT, your best bet is to buy from other hobbyists selling livestock directly out of their DT. In some areas, some local clubs do this. Of course, this only works if the person you are buying from properly QTs their fish before adding to their DT. And this gameplan is not 100% safe. There's always risk.

 

[palmer373]

Thanks for the answers guys and yes you understood me correctly. b0bab0ey, to defend myself about adding all the fish to the tank then QTing all of them, some friends and I have used Bio-Spira to start tanks and had fish in those tanks 2 days after the Bio-Spira was added, those fish are still alive today. I have had more problems waiting for the cycle and adding fish than using Bio-Spira then adding fish. But I do understand your concern about adding all the fish I want at once if I understand you correctly, I plan one at a time spaced over a months (in the mean time a fish could fall ill and die which strongly recomends QT prior to DT intro).

I guess this means I should set up my 29 as a QT and hypo isn't a cure all like I originally thought. What brands of copper do people recommend? I know of Cuprimine and Prazipro (I that a copper med or am I confused?). I recall reading about a 'reef safe except for sensile inverts' copper treament, is there one and if so what is it called?

Thanks for the opinions and help fellas!

 

[b0bab0ey]

Thanks for the answers guys and yes you understood me correctly. b0bab0ey, to defend myself about adding all the fish to the tank then QTing all of them, some friends and I have used Bio-Spira to start tanks and had fish in those tanks 2 days after the Bio-Spira was added, those fish are still alive today. I have had more problems waiting for the cycle and adding fish than using Bio-Spira then adding fish. But I do understand your concern about adding all the fish I want at once if I understand you correctly, I plan one at a time spaced over a months (in the mean time a fish could fall ill and die which strongly recomends QT prior to DT intro).

I've used Bio-Spira myself in the past. Some people on here debate it's effectiveness but it's always worked for me. I think the key is to not buy a bottle of it that has been sitting on some LFS's shelf for years and all the bacteria is dead. But, even w/using Bio-Spira, I still only add 2-3 small fish at first and then wait at least another month before adding another fish. These fish are just too damn expensive to take any chances, ya know?

I guess this means I should set up my 29 as a QT and hypo isn't a cure all like I originally thought. What brands of copper do people recommend? I know of Cuprimine and Prazipro (I that a copper med or am I confused?). I recall reading about a 'reef safe except for sensile inverts' copper treament, is there one and if so what is it called?

Thanks for the opinions and help fellas!

I use a 29 gal w/a good old fashioned u/g filter as my QT. Cupramine is what you want to use for your copper treatment. It's more stable and a lot safer for the fish than old school Coppersafe. Prazipro is not a copper med at all. It is used when a fish has internal worms, esp Flukes. I also use Maracyn 1 & 2 when I suspect a fish has fungus or a bacterial infection.

IMO, there is no such thing as a "reef safe" treatment that compares to copper. It's all just snake oil. The only "reef safe" treatment that I know of is Prazipro, although it will sometimes kill your tube worms/feather dusters.

 

[palmer373]

I've used Bio-Spira myself in the past. Some people on here debate it's effectiveness but it's always worked for me. I think the key is to not buy a bottle of it that has been sitting on some LFS's shelf for years and all the bacteria is dead. But, even w/using Bio-Spira, I still only add 2-3 small fish at first and then wait at least another month before adding another fish. These fish are just too damn expensive to take any chances, ya know?

Amen I completely agree.

I use a 29 gal w/a good old fashioned u/g filter as my QT. Cupramine is what you want to use for your copper treatment. It's more stable and a lot safer for the fish than old school Coppersafe. Prazipro is not a copper med at all. It is used when a fish has internal worms, esp Flukes. I also use Maracyn 1 & 2 when I suspect a fish has fungus or a bacterial infection.

IMO, there is no such thing as a "reef safe" treatment that compares to copper. It's all just snake oil. The only "reef safe" treatment that I know of is Prazipro, although it will sometimes kill your tube worms/feather dusters.

Lucky enough I have a spare 29 w/ UGF sitting in the shed! Do you use a HOB filter or anybiologicla filtration? I know it'll die with a copper treament but the fish need biological filtration right? So ill look for Cupramine next time I'm at a LFS. Ah ok Prazipro was what I was thinking, its still a medication so I was close I should also look to stock up on Prazipro and Maracryn 1 & 2 so I have a stock of those, is there another med that treats something that Cupramine, Prazipro, Maracyn 1 & 2 doesn't treat?

Thanks for the help b0bab0ey!

 

[b0bab0ey]

Lucky enough I have a spare 29 w/ UGF sitting in the shed! Do you use a HOB filter or anybiologicla filtration? I know it'll die with a copper treament but the fish need biological filtration right? So ill look for Cupramine next time I'm at a LFS. Ah ok Prazipro was what I was thinking, its still a medication so I was close I should also look to stock up on Prazipro and Maracryn 1 & 2 so I have a stock of those, is there another med that treats something that Cupramine, Prazipro, Maracyn 1 & 2 doesn't treat?

Thanks for the help b0bab0ey!

I also run an Aquaclear 50 power filter on my 29g QT. Of course, I take out the carbon when I'm medicating.

There's a number of ways you can setup your 29g to be a QT. Doing it my way, you will, of course, have to cycle it first. You'll also need to buy a copper test kit (I use salifert), test and add more copper as needed. I use crushed coral as a substrate and some of the copper gets absorbed in that. But you'll have a fully functional, stable QT.

Some people prefer a bare bottom QT. The advantages are you don't have to cycle and don't have to worry so much about your copper levels fluctuating. You can use a sponge filter, HOB power filter or canister filter on these setups. The disadvantage, as I see it, is you have to do frequent WCs to siphon the fish poop off the bottom because there's no u/g filter to break it down for you. If you don't mind doing frequent WCs, this may be an option for you to consider. But I only have to WC my QT every 2-3 weeks and that's how I like it.

The problem with stocking up on any of these meds is they have expiration dates. My suggestion would be to check the LFSs near you, see if they carry these meds, and what's the price difference vs. buying online. Sometimes by the time you order online and receive it, the fish is dead. So it's a bit of a dilemma. Those 4 meds are the only ones I ever use. Check out the threads and stickies below about additional meds and QT procedures. It's good reading.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1846124#12

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1994597

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=87

 

[palmer373]

Thanks