jawfish question and shrimp+goby question

[Ricimer]

Hi!
I am thinking about adding either a blue-spotted jawfish to my reef or a shrimp goby with his pistol shrimp. A few things make me hesitate so I would like your opinions. My tank is a 90 gal open top with 5" sugar fine DSB.
-Are blue-spotted jawfish jumpers? I heard both awnsers. I dont want to cover my tank with anything.
-From what I know most shrimp gobies are not jumpers. But can the associated pistol shrimp pose a threat to other small crustaceans (sexy shrimps) or small fishes (clown goby, mandarin)?
-Can the digging of the shimp be a problem for the corals or clams located toward the bottom, covering them with sand? Not more than with a jawfish I guess.
Thanks!
Ricimer

 

[Leopard Wrasse]

Blue-Spotted Jawfish are definite jumpers, a covered tank is a must.

 

[The steven liu]

I agree, just about all the jaw fishes I know are jumpers. Gobies jump too! As far as pistol shrimp, they will not bother clams because clams will just blow the sand off themselfs but I am not sure of their effect on sexy shrimp.

 

[Ricimer]

Shrimp gobies jump too!? I would have tought they would seek protection from the burrow and their shrimp if they're startled. The species I was thinking of were: randall's goby, wheeler's goby, yasha goby, or hi-fin red banded goby.

 

[nickiwit]

Shrimp gobies are not as likely to jump as a jawfish but they can. I actually had one jump out.

Pistol shrimp are known to kill other shrimp or crabs in the tank. Not all of them do. Some species are more likely to then others but there is a chance. They won't bother fish.

 

[Ricimer]

Do you know what species of pistol shrimp are less likely to kill other shrimps and crabs? I am not so worried about my coral crabs and anemone crabs because they mostly stay in their coralian or anemone fortress, but the sexy shrimps and cleaner shrimps...

 

[Ricimer]

Oh yes, and the fighting conch that is always in the sand... in danger?

 

[nickiwit]

Some pistol shrimp don't pair. These are more likely to kill your shrimp/crabs then the others. A good example of this one is the bullseye pistol.

The tiger and candy stripe pistol are the best to pair with gobies and less likely to kill other shrimp/crabs. I have had a tiger kill a pepperment shrimp in the past but I know many people whose tigers have not bothered anything. It helps to have your shimp in the tank already. The sexy shrimp are so small that I would worry more about them more then the cleaner shrimp.

I don't think they will bother the fighting conch.

 

[Ricimer]

I guess I will just cross my fingers for the sexy shrimps. I like to keep half a dozen sexy shrimps in my tank. Maybe their chance is that they are cautious (they know their size... and often "deep in the decor", like in between two corals or under long polyps or next to an anemone. Maybe that will save them.

 

[techigirl78]

I've kept gobies and jawfish with an open top, but you can't have anything in the tank that would spook them, like larger, fast moving fish. You also don't want the tank anywhere where there's a lot of activity. When I did it, I did keep egg crate on the top of my tank for the first month or so. Also, there is always the risk that they will jump.

 

[technoshaman]

Bluespots are somewhat delicate ime and more aggressive than some of the more commonly available tropical Atlantic jawfish commonly available. I had a few, lost one to jumping and one to the dreaded blue spot jawfish disease. If you do try one quarantine them for at least a few weeks and read up on all the lengthy threads here on RC about problems with them before you take the plunge.

Just based on reading I've done these fish are collected from the base of steep walls in the Gulf of California and the collection area borders on subtropical temperatures at that depth - they might actually need somewhat cooler water to thrive than your typical reef tank. Also they are pugnacious - one to a tank unless you have a huge bottom area.

 

[Ricimer]

Ok, thanks a lot for that info technoshaman ! I'll definitely forget about the blue-spotted jawfish then. Do you have an experience with the shrimp goby+pistol shrimp ? Issues of threat for other crustaceans, jumping, and messing up DSB / NNR? ...

 

[techigirl78]

You could always look into the pearly jawfish. Much nicer to other fish and many less problems.

I don't think my pistol shrimp could bother anything, it hasn't too date beyond the zoanthid frags it stole for its home. It is tiny and will stay fairly small. As others indicated, make sure you get a pistol shrimp that does pair up with fish. This is what I have with a yasa hashe goby: http://www.marinedepotlive.com/randalls-pistol-shrimp---alpheus-randalli-inverts--shrimp.html I also have cleaner shrimp, fire shrimp, sexy shrimp, porcelain crabs, and a few drawf hermits. I haven't seen my goby jump, but read of many others doing it.

 

[Ricimer]

The pearly jawfish is cute, but I dont like it so much. Plus I try to stay true to my Indo-Pacific set-up...
So I'd rather go with the pistol shrimp+goby altough I am still not convinced about the jumping and DSB/NNR issues.

 

[techigirl78]

I think any burrowing fish can cause a DSB issues. As for jumping, what other fish do you have in the tank. As I mentioned, I think it has to do much with the other tankmates and usually happens shortly after introducing a fish.

 

[Ricimer]

I have a mandarin, a mated pair of ocellaris, a lawnmower blenny, a yellow tang, and a green clown goby. I also had a firefish (dartfish) and it jumped out of the tank within 3 days after I decided to go open top. After that I got no loss and it's been 3 months I have an open top. I guess I have a very peacefull set-up. The tang is not agressive at all. He is the most coward fish in the tank in fact. Now I dont want to try any fish that is considered a jumper any more. I like dartfish a lot but I will never get one again. He was in the tank for 6 months already when he jumped (as soon as there was no cover). I have been reading often that jawfish are notorious jumpers. All fish can jump so shrimp gobies too, but it sounds like they wont jump more then the average (as opposed to jawfish), is that correct? I think I'll follow your advice and buy a large eggcrete sheet and use it for a one week (enough?) each time I get a new fish. Does the shrimp dig a single hole, makes it his house and that's it or does it really dig a tunnel system? Or maybe placing a plastic hose in the sand would help preventing a mess up with the deep layers of the DSB...?

 

[Ricimer]

And what about a twinspot goby then? Are they so difficult to keep alive as I have read? I have a 90 gal tank+20 gal fuge. I already have a mandarin. I wonder if such a set-up can still sustain a pair of twin-spot...

 

[technoshaman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7119207#post7119207 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ricimer
And what about a twinspot goby then? Are they so difficult to keep alive as I have read? I have a 90 gal tank+20 gal fuge. I already have a mandarin. I wonder if such a set-up can still sustain a pair of twin-spot...

I tried to 'save' one I found in a LFS. He was emaciated and ignored most food but would peck at the sand. I placed him in my refugium hoping he'd find something to eat but he withered away. I have heard they only really do 'ok' in pairs and benefit form being dewormed in a quarantine tank - most of the ones I see come in to shops look like they are on deaths door.

Kind of plain but maybe try a yellow watchman - not prone to jumping - I have had a mated pair going on 5+ years now , great little fish but they toss sand around and can bury smaller corals on the sandbed.

 

[Ricimer]

Technoshaman do you think it's unwise to add a small (possibly a pair) sandsifting goby to my system given that I have a mandarin (wich is doing well so far, after 6 months)? I think of food competition. Mandarin eats mostly on LR and sandsifter out of the DSB, but still they both deplete microfauna... R. Shimek says to "never never get a sandsifting animal with a DSB because it depletes beneficial organism...". That's annoying and would make my list of options grow thin. What do you think about it? Regarding the two-spot goby, maybe I would try a pair of them when I upgrade to 210gal+90gal fuge all with 5"DSB. I guess I would have good chance of success then.

 

[technoshaman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7121596#post7121596 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ricimer
Technoshaman do you think it's unwise to add a small (possibly a pair) sandsifting goby to my system given that I have a mandarin (wich is doing well so far, after 6 months)? I think of food competition. Mandarin eats mostly on LR and sandsifter out of the DSB, but still they both deplete microfauna... R. Shimek says to "never never get a sandsifting animal with a DSB because it depletes beneficial organism...". That's annoying and would make my list of options grow thin. What do you think about it? Regarding the two-spot goby, maybe I would try a pair of them when I upgrade to 210gal+90gal fuge all with 5"DSB. I guess I would have good chance of success then.

Many animals that depend on food foraged from the sand bed do poorly in my experience - this would include sleeper gobies, goatfish and echinoderms like the ubiquitous 'sand sifting' starfish and some cucumbers. The microrganisms which the feed upon are depleted more rapidly in the average hobbyist tank than they can replenish themselves.

The tank you are talking about is similar to mine (215 with 70 gallon refugium and 40 gallon sump). If the system was up for 6 months or so and had no other food competitors you would do ok with the mandarin - mine has been in my system for 3ish years and has never taken prepared food other than the occasional piece of cyclopeeze. As for the crab / signal gobies not sure, if you got a pair and quarantined them properly - treated for parasites you might do ok. Most gobies will burrow / shift sand and aside from being unsightly at times it never really seemed to cause any hige problems in my tank other than the occasional algae bloom after some serious excavation on their part.

I know DSBs are a loaded issue here on RC, I've tried them - had ok success with them but I would say if you are using it as a nutrient sink then sandsifters would not be optimal since they will disturb the substrate and release nutrients back into the water fueling algae , cyano etc.