I was reading tonight and came across a few post about people starting to use vinegar and Kawk at the same time. I cant find great details just a few mentions. Have you ever heard of this? If so, what are the benefits and what exactly does it do? I am by no means a chemist but cant imagine what this could be used for. HELP PLEASE!!
Jay (Mr. Pres) I need help
- Thread starter jabo
- Start date
Well I asked a question to one of the guys who mentioned this and he sent me a link. I will try to post this but who knows if the natzis will allow it. Interesting, cant believe I have never heard about it.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php#7
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php#7
neuroslicer
Old School Reefer
In addition to using the acidic vinegar to help dissolve the kalkwasser, increasing the amount of calcium hydroxide that can go into solution... people use vinegar as another carbon source (like dosing vodka). Adding kalkwasser to the vinegar keeps the pH level from dropping significantly.... something that might happen if you add a large enough dose of vinegar by itself.
I prefer to add the two part solutions of calcium chloride and sodium carbonate. You don't have to drip it in slowly because it won't alter your pH level like KW will.
I save the Mrs. Wages for my Aiptasia.
As for dosing with any carbon source (vodka, vinegar)... my philosophy is if you don't break it it won't need fixing. Or in other words, an ounce of prevention....
I prefer to add the two part solutions of calcium chloride and sodium carbonate. You don't have to drip it in slowly because it won't alter your pH level like KW will.
I save the Mrs. Wages for my Aiptasia.
As for dosing with any carbon source (vodka, vinegar)... my philosophy is if you don't break it it won't need fixing. Or in other words, an ounce of prevention....
OneReef
Reef Guru
Just a quick question. I use carbon dosing as my "ounce of prevention". To me, a carbon source (biopellets in my case) do the same thing as a refugium, but cleaner and easier. My question is on the don't break don't fix, carbon dosing isn't for broken tanks, it is a preventative. That's would be like saying don't add a refugium. Unless you are talking about staying all natural like an ecosystem. At any rate, just some rambling and musings by a person who hasn't had their morning coffee yet..... Lol
Anyways, very interesting about vinegar and calc. Nice to see how they work together.
neuroslicer
Old School Reefer
The preventatives (refugium, sand bed, live rock, skimming) either remove wastes directly or provide the niches for denitrifying anerobic bacteria. If these are insufficient to keep N & P to zero (perhaps the bioload is too high or nutrient input is too high), or if you choose not to use the traditional techniques, carbon dosing boosts the bacterial population past its normal "carrying capacity". The risk IMO is that if the bacteria aren't carefully managed at these high levels then you can incur a bacterial crash, followed by spikes in N & P.
neuroslicer
Old School Reefer
I mentioned vodka and vinegar as problematic carbon sources in the previous posts, not biopellets, but since you bring it up...
I am reserving judgement on biopellets until more people report back with long term success stories, or until we see some more science supporting this new technology. While many claim short term successes with biopellets, I'm hearing more and more about coral necrosis with long term use. Possible causes could be too little N and P, leading to coral starvation (which could then be remedied by supplemental nutrition...(put another way: not much survives in a desert). It could also be that the high bacterial load supported by the biopellets introduces nutritional oscillations when what corals need is stability. Those are just two possibilities that could conceivably lead to problems. I don't claim either hypothesis as true. But until the biopellet bandwagon has some more science in its gas tank, I'll advise proceed with caution. That said, I'll be happy to jump on board when the biopellet recipe for long term reef stability has been figured out. My hope is that this new technique revolutionizes reef husbandry. But for now I'm raising coral, not guinea pigs.
I am reserving judgement on biopellets until more people report back with long term success stories, or until we see some more science supporting this new technology. While many claim short term successes with biopellets, I'm hearing more and more about coral necrosis with long term use. Possible causes could be too little N and P, leading to coral starvation (which could then be remedied by supplemental nutrition...(put another way: not much survives in a desert). It could also be that the high bacterial load supported by the biopellets introduces nutritional oscillations when what corals need is stability. Those are just two possibilities that could conceivably lead to problems. I don't claim either hypothesis as true. But until the biopellet bandwagon has some more science in its gas tank, I'll advise proceed with caution. That said, I'll be happy to jump on board when the biopellet recipe for long term reef stability has been figured out. My hope is that this new technique revolutionizes reef husbandry. But for now I'm raising coral, not guinea pigs.
neuroslicer
Old School Reefer
It is certainly possible to overdose biopellets. I've been reading threads of bacterial films building up outside of the pellet reactor, evidence for the leaching of carbon from the biopellet polymer matrix. It would have to be released from the polymer matrix in order for the bacteria to utilize it.
neuroslicer
Old School Reefer
Here's an interesting link to some possible problems using biopellets:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1967026&highlight=biopellets+tissue&page=4
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1967026&highlight=biopellets+tissue&page=4
OneReef
Reef Guru
You are right about tissue necrosis and also paling colors from biopellets if not enough food added. Biopellets can strip your water down to nothing. Thats why I feed amino acids, coral frenzy and oyster feast for my coral. My SPS were flourishing with biopellets and coral feeding in my old 150g. When I sold it, the new owner didn't feed the SPS and they starved and died.
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