Just Ordered My Rock Last Night! (Excited + Questions...)

[redwarrior77]

This is my very first saltwater tank...actually my very first tank period. A coworker and I are both setting up nano tanks in our cubes at work and I've opted to go for TBS live rock after much research and sitting on the fence. I'm excited to see how much better my tank looks than his "dead" LFS rock. :lol: (Seriously, though, he is way more experienced, so my tank will still probably look pitiful next to his.)

I went with aragalive sand only because I really wanted something with more color. I got the "tahitian black" sand, which really is black and white and I'm already loving the color, particularly since I have plans for black and white clownfish in this tank. (Us computer geeks love binary!) I just went online and ordered 20lbs of TBS live rock last night and I'm excited to say the least, but I have a few questions for you TBS veterans.

I know I will need to do frequent water changes once I get my rock and my tank begins to cycle. The question I have is about lights...should I run them during the cycle and if so, what kind of schedule should I plan on? I have PC's, Actinics, and moonlights and I already have my moonlights on a time for nighttime and I'm planning on buying a separate timer for my Actinics and PC's so that I can run them independently if need be. Also, feeding...if I end up with any cool hitchikers, should I feed them during the cycle or wait? I don't want anything cool to starve. I'm also clueless as to what to feed any new critters, but I'm hoping my more experienced coworker can help me find my way.

In all my research, I couldn't find any cooler rock than the TBS rock. I went to 2 LFS as well and not only was their "live rock" much more expensive than TBS (even with the shipping!!) it also did not look like it had any life at all on it...no corraline, no algae, just dead-looking rock! For anything half as nice as what I've seen on the TBS website, they charged even more! I'm also psyched about having a piece of the real ocean in my tank, even if it does mean I might have to bravely do battle with a mantis shrimp. (My coworker loves the things, so who knows...he might get a new pet...me, I'd rather keep my fingers!)

Thanks and I'll be sure to post pictures here and in my tank thread in the nano section...this is turning out to be more of an addiction than a hobby, but boy is it making work more fun! :rollface:

 

[OgreMkV]

Well, I'm not an expert (just got my TBS rock a week ago), but I'll pitch in.

You are so right. The TBS is so much better than anything else, it's not even funny. I have black aragonite sand as well. I'd be careful with the black and white clown. He might get lost in the black... I doubt it, but my wife is a professional artist and that's what she said. We're going for yellow and red fish so that they pop out from the background.

Yes, frequent water changes. I'm doing at least one a day. Just a small one, like 5 gallons (out of 46). Richard said to run the lights about 5 hours a day. I'm running mine a touch more because I got some great Calaupera Mexicana and it's growing fast.

Richard also says don't feed during the cycle. Again, I've got some traps for a gorilla crab, but that's not really feeding... I think.

I'm sure you have all the equipment you need, but I suggest you get a pair of the heavy duty latex gloves and use those when doing anything in the tank. I wouls also suggest a good magnifying glass (for those small critters.

BTW: I've found several snails, at least three crabs (one of which is a gorilla), many feather dusters, a cup coral, a sponge that died, a one inch bristle worm and (my fav) a black sea urchin.

Good luck getting any work done when your rock arrives. You're going to be sitting there "Ooh, what's that?" for weeks. Literally. Probably everyone in the office will too.

 

[OgreMkV]

BTW: Richard is on vacation. I'm not sure if he's coming back today or later in the weekend.

 

[redwarrior77]

Just a quick update...after pricing a separate clean-up crew and emailing with Richard about the merits of real live sand versus my bagged, I sprang for "the package." (Gosh, that thing has almost legendary status around here!) He and I are working out the details of the first shipment, but I'm hoping to have pictures in a few days to post and brag about. In the meantime, I think I'll be getting together my thick gloves and implements of destruction. Mwwwuuuahhh...gorilla crabs beware!

 

[divemonster]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12909729#post12909729 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redwarrior77
Mwwwuuuahhh...gorilla crabs beware!

hahaha!!

Congratulations on your decision! Can't wait to see the bragging rights pics. Your package will bring you many hours of joy.

 

[docklink]

Aye, congrats are to be had. I think getting the package was a good decision as the TBS live sand will give you a better jump start on the cycling of your tank. If you decide after that you like the look of the black sand, you can always remove a bit of the TBS sand and then add some of the black over the top of it ( it will eventually get mixed in but that will be ok). Do watch your cycle closely in a nano tank, as a dieing sponge or such can spike the ammonia quickly in a small volume of water.

I'ld advise not feeding any hitchhikers in the first shipment unless you get the rare fish and then only a very limited target feeding. Good luck and keep us apprised.

 

[redwarrior77]

Wow oh wow! There's nothing like two boxes from TBS to make a dull day at work better!

Unfortunately, I didn't think to take my digital camera to work to take pictures of the boxes as they arrived or the rock as I put it in, but I did get a fts with the rock in and the cloudy water with my camera phone:

I'm going to bring my digital camera in tomorrow and get some good pics and put them up here.

I'm very glad I went with the package. Even just the sand itself is full of life. I've already found several tiny snails that hitched a ride and are already exploring their new little home. I also found something snail-like and a bit larger. It was stuck to the side of the bag, so I just gently pried him loose and stuck him to the side of my tank. The rock was covered in stuff...I would have liked to keep it out to look at it and try to figure out what everything was, but I also wanted to get it back in the water asap, so I just quickly scanned it for any nasties, sniffed it a bit (my husband and kids thought I was a little weird there) and then put it in...I can't wait for the water to clear so I can get a good look at it. I know there was some nice macroalgae on it as well as what looked to be some cup corals at first glance.

We were just about ready to pack up and my husband was throwing out the bags when he came rushing back in saying, "there's something alive in there!" We pulled a tiny little crab out of the bag and, while trying to figure out if he was a good guy or a bad guy, he fell off my hand into the recycling bin beneath my desk! I couldn't see any black on his claws and considering his ordeal, I decided he at least deserved a reprieve, so into the tank he went. Hopefully he won't do anything to make me regret suspending his death sentence!

I don't know if I'm the only one here who thought this, but after the pickup was done, I couldn't help but think, "Man, and here I thought this was going to be a difficult ordeal and it was SO easy!" The airline called me before I had a chance to check with them to make sure the package had arrived and pickup was a breeze. No worries!

Thanks Richard, and expect better pics tomorrow!

 

[OgreMkV]

Excellent. You'll spend hours going "what is that?" and everyday you'll see something new.

Enjoy.

 

[liverock]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12913579#post12913579 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redwarrior77
Wow oh wow! There's nothing like two boxes from TBS to make a dull day at work better!

Unfortunately, I didn't think to take my digital camera to work to take pictures of the boxes as they arrived or the rock as I put it in, but I did get a fts with the rock in and the cloudy water with my camera phone:

I'm going to bring my digital camera in tomorrow and get some good pics and put them up here.

I'm very glad I went with the package. Even just the sand itself is full of life. I've already found several tiny snails that hitched a ride and are already exploring their new little home. I also found something snail-like and a bit larger. It was stuck to the side of the bag, so I just gently pried him loose and stuck him to the side of my tank. The rock was covered in stuff...I would have liked to keep it out to look at it and try to figure out what everything was, but I also wanted to get it back in the water asap, so I just quickly scanned it for any nasties, sniffed it a bit (my husband and kids thought I was a little weird there) and then put it in...I can't wait for the water to clear so I can get a good look at it. I know there was some nice macroalgae on it as well as what looked to be some cup corals at first glance.

We were just about ready to pack up and my husband was throwing out the bags when he came rushing back in saying, "there's something alive in there!" We pulled a tiny little crab out of the bag and, while trying to figure out if he was a good guy or a bad guy, he fell off my hand into the recycling bin beneath my desk! I couldn't see any black on his claws and considering his ordeal, I decided he at least deserved a reprieve, so into the tank he went. Hopefully he won't do anything to make me regret suspending his death sentence!

I don't know if I'm the only one here who thought this, but after the pickup was done, I couldn't help but think, "Man, and here I thought this was going to be a difficult ordeal and it was SO easy!" The airline called me before I had a chance to check with them to make sure the package had arrived and pickup was a breeze. No worries!

Thanks Richard, and expect better pics tomorrow!

Perfect!

You did well...and you were all worried....see!...so easy!

BUT

You have a really small tank full of life...is imperative to keep the ammonia under 1ppm......if you do get ammonia, and it persists after water changes....do as the directions say and use your nose..something is on the way out and needs attention..

Small tanks are tough, but with proper care....all is well....there is an 8 gallon nano in Texas I stocked...search here for the thread...is really a neat nano like yours!

Oh yeah...small crab if it is tan colored and flat be happy!

and snail guy is a limpet!

see my page at http://www.tampabaysaltwater.com/thepackage/organisms.html for critters pic's...

Richard TBS

:rollface: :rollface: :rollface:

 

[redwarrior77]

Yep...looked on the site after I posted and he is the very picture of a keyhole limpet and seemed to be happily working on my tank glass when I left. I also have several small snails already cleaning. I'm thinking the little crab might have been a mithrax crab or something similar...he was tan and very flat and I couldn't find any black on his claws before he took his nosedive. I'm glad the little critter didn't get recycled. I already have a 5 gallon bucket of salt water mixed and ready to go and plan on testing first thing in the morning to check the ammonia...I also have a little ammonia "detector" in the upper left hand corner of my tank, but I'm not relying on it too much...I'm not sure how reliable it is, but at the very least it will remind me to test, test, test. I plan on testing a least 2 times a day while I'm cycling since this is such a small tank. I'd rather waste test kits than rock.

 

[HowardW]

The Seachem Ammonia Alert should be quite accurate as it uses the same small round sensor as their standard ammonia kits.

As others have said......with a small tank water parameters and quailty can change or go downhill quickly and I would always have on hand a minimum of 5 -10g of saltwater made up and also do partial water changes every 1-2 weeks after the cycle. Water quality is KEY in any nano tank and the frequent partial water changes will greatly compensate for not having an effective skimmer like many larger tanks. Running a top quality carbon will also assist in removing organics.

 

[redwarrior77]

The critter count increases!

I have a little hermit crab who seems to be quite the friendly since his favorite spot is right in the front. I need to stare at my snails a bit to try to figure out if they are snails or whelks that need to be removed. The cup corals have their feeding tentacles out and seem to be happy. So far, the ammonia seems to be doing ok, but I have 5 gallon bucket of saltwater with a powerhead at the ready!

And then it happened...the most ominous sound I think I've ever heard...click...click...click, click...

I'm hoping it's a happy little pistol shrimp hiding out in one of the rocks clicking away, but I'm worried that it's a mantis shrimp. I even dragged a more experienced coworker over to listen (he accused me of hallucinating at first, but then he heard it too) to see if he knew the difference between the sound of a friendly pistol shrimp and the sound of a mean, finger-splitting, fish killing mantis shrimp. Nope, but he did hear the click, so I'm not nuts.

I'm already planning a water change this weekend or whenever my ammonia goes up, so I guess I'll be putting on the gloves and looking through my rock some more. Here I was hoping I was out of the woods for this half when everything seemed quiet. Hopefully it's either a pistol shrimp or an easily caught mantis that I can give to someone who wants it. Me, I like my fingers! :lol:

 

[redwarrior77]

Howard, yep, I'm already seeing that I need to invest in a better skimmer. I'm thinking a Tunze nano skimmer might have to be in my future budget to keep up with the white foam. :/ On the plus side, that means that there's already a lot going on in my tank and it's only half full! I added a more powerful powerhead this morning as well and although it seemed to shock the snails some, I think I heard the cup corals breathe a sigh of relief. I'm now running a MJ1200 in place of the stock pump.

I also have some purigen coming in today or tomorrow to help with filtration and my chaeto algae in the back seems to be helping. I'm betting I'll be doing a lot of tweaking over the next few months!

 

[HowardW]

The Tunze nano should work well for a tank that size, and adding the the MJ1200 was also a good idea as TBS rock likes flow. Also a good idea on using the Purigen and make sure you use a very fine mesh bag for it or it'll end up in your tank.......sounds like you're getting good advice!

Generally but not always, double or multiple clicks indicate a pistol whereas single clicks (more like a thud) indicate a mantis. If you have a mantis or two the best way to catch it is to remove the rock he's in and physically extract him, the cold seltzer water and syringe method usually works well.

 

[redwarrior77]

It sounds like it might be a happy little pistol shrimp, then, because when I do hear them, they are multiple little clicks. I'll still be careful when I inspect the rock again, though.

I also found a great website for helping you distinguish between bad whelks and good nassarius snails that I thought I'd share:

http://www.melevsreef.com/id/whats_a_whelk.html

It looks like my current snails are keepers! So far, I think my favorite hitch-hikers are my keyhole limpet that has decided the glass of my tank is the best place to hang out, the cup corals that are just too cool, and my red macroalgae that seems so happy with the increase flow. My tank is clearing up nicely and I look forward to getting home tonight and posting more and better pictures. (Although I'm already finding the limits of my camera to capture all the neat little critters...I think each one of my rocks is covered in filter feeders flicking out their little nets!)

 

[CathyGo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12914806#post12914806 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redwarrior77
.I also have a little ammonia "detector" in the upper left hand corner of my tank, but I'm not relying on it too much...I'm not sure how reliable it is, but at the very least it will remind me to test, test, test.

That sensor is a piece of junk. I was very careful to apply mine according to the directions and it was telling me I had zero ammonia when I had a lot and was reading so high all my fish should have been dead when ammonia had gone back down to zero. The other common one is just as bad. Stick to liquid tests while you're cycling so you can tell what amount is present the most accurately.

 

[divemonster]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13001600#post13001600 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CathyGo
That sensor is a piece of junk. I was very careful to apply mine according to the directions and it was telling me I had zero ammonia when I had a lot and was reading so high all my fish should have been dead when ammonia had gone back down to zero. The other common one is just as bad. Stick to liquid tests while you're cycling so you can tell what amount is present the most accurately.

I agree! I had one and threw it away because the ammonia was not registering at all while my API test was registering plenty of ammonia. Maybe those have a shelf life and I was shipped an old one or something.

 

[redwarrior77]

I still have mine...it changes colors with ammonia but the readings aren't reliable. Really, it's just a mental reminder...hey test your tank, dummy! I plan on getting rid of it when I'm done cycling.

 

[HowardW]

I've been using the Seachem Ammonia Alert for many years and mine always work exactly as advertised and are quite accurate. Keep in mind they work better after they've been in the tank for a couple days to acclimate to your water in my experience. Also, they test for free 'harmful' ammonia, not the total.

From the Seachem FAQ's page:

Q: I have another test kit that showed positive for ammonia but the Ammonia Alertâ"žÂ¢never changed color. Is it still good?

A: Most likely the other test kit was testing for total ammonia. Total ammonia includes both free (NH3) and ionic (NH4+) ammonia. The Ammonia Alertâ"žÂ¢only measure free ammonia because that is the harmful form. Ionic ammonia cannot harm your fish. However, as pH rises, a greater and greater percentage of the total ammonia will be converted from ionic ammonia to free ammonia, so knowledge of total ammonia is also important.

Q: Does Ammonia Alert properly detect toxic ammonia in the presence of Prime?

A: If the Prime has not complexed with the ammonia yet it will detect it, but it won't detect it if the Prime has already complexed it (which makes sense because when Prime has complexed with the ammonia it is no longer toxic). If you want to know the total ammonia level (free, ionized and complexed) you would need to run a Total Ammonia Test (like with our MultiTest: Free & Total Ammonia.

Q: I bought a Ammonia alert from Pet store but it doesn't not work at all after following all the instruction -How can I get my money refund back as it is not working at all and the COLOR NEVER CHANGES?

A:The technology of this device is very unique to our company and has been an excellent seller for many years to hobbyists, breeders, and public facilities alike. The Ammonia Alert is designed to change color in the presence of free (gaseous) ammonia, not ammonium (ionized ammonia) which is harmless to fish and other aquatic life. The longer it is left in a particular body of water/aquarium, the more sensitive it becomes to that water. Most conventional test kits test total ammonia which is a combination of free ammonia + ammonium = total ammonia. PH is the determining factor on what type is present. If your pH is acidic (below 7.0), it is chemically impossible for ammonia (harmful gas) to exist. Yet a total ammonia test kit will register a reading because it detects both the free ammonia (harmful gas) and ammonium (harmless ionized form of ammonia). The more basic your pH becomes, the greater the chance of ammonia existing. Example: If you have 1.0 ppm of total ammonia and your pH is below 7.0, then 1.0 ppm will exist as ammonium. Ex. If you have 1.0 ppm of total ammonia and your pH is 7.6 (slightly basic), then of that 1.0 ppm total ammonia......only .2 or so would exist as a gas and the other .8 would exist as ammonium.
There is one simple way to tell if our Ammonia Alert is functioning properly, simply hold the sensor over an open bottle of something containing ammonia (Windex glass cleaner will work) as it will detect the fumes/gas and change color. Plese be sure not to touch the sensor in the middle of the plastic card as the oils from your skin may clog the pores on the sensor.

 

[OgreMkV]

I'm not sure I buy that. I teach chemistry and in solution ammonia switches between the inoic and molecular form and back very rapidly (like grams per millisecond)

The amount of ammonia and ammonium (the NH4+) changes in the tank, but the total doesn't change (via that process).