Kalk Reactor = cloudy water

C

coral_reefer_25

New member
The water in my tank has been cloudy ever since I got my Kalk reactor up and running. At first I thought that I was just mixing the solution too many times per day so I backed it off. Now I only stir the mix every 4 hours, and the pump only runs for 5 minutes each time.

When you're looking at the tank straight on, you can't really tell that the water is cloudy except for above the rocks where you can see the black background.

However if you look down the long end of the tank, it's quite cloudy.

I have added a simple HOB Power Filter to the sump in hopes of clearing it up, but it hasn't helped much, if at all.

Any suggestions?
 
What is your Ca, Alk and pH? How are you adding the kalkwasser (how much at a time, and how often)? Is the mixture that you are putting in milky white, or more clear?
 
It's not milky white...but it's not totall clear either. All of my levels are fine. I'm dosing via a DIY Kalk reactor and a float switch that tops off the tank automatically. It pumps fresh RO/DI water into the mid-section of the reactor, which forces the buffered water out the top of the reactor and that water goes into the sump until the float switch is deactivated.

I'd say that it tops off once every 2-3 hours, and the pump runs for about 5 or 6 seconds each time.
 
The actual parameters are important. Things can be within the "normal range" but if the alk and Ca are out of balance you can get cloudy water. So post the actual values for Ca, Alk and pH.

Re: the topoff -- what volume flows during that 5 or 6 seconds? What kind of pump are you pushing the topoff with?
 
I'll go measure those things now.

It's not pushing much at all. It requires very little to cut that switch off. I'd say about one cup. The pump is a MaxiJet 1200, and it's at the bottom of a 6 gallon bucket, pushing water up and over, and into the Kalk reactor. The gravity from the column of water in the reactor, above where the inlet is for the fresh water is pushing against the pump as well, so it's not an easy job for that pump.
 
Here are some possible reasons for the cloudy water:

1) if you are pushing too much kalkwasser into the tank at a time, you can get a locally high pH (>9) and if the flow isn't great enough to dillute that out pretty quickly you can get a precipitate of calcium carbonate -- the white stuff.

2) if your Alkalinity is at the upper ranges for a proper balance with the Ca level, you can get a precipitate of calcium carbonate when you run the kalk in.

3) I think the same can happen if the pH is high and the Ca level is at the upper end of a balance with the pH -- adding kalk can cause calcium to precipitate out.

Off the top of my head I may have those jumbled up, but I think they are on target.
 
An MJ1200 I think pushes about 80 gph at 4' of head (measured from the top of the water in the bucket to where the pump dumps out. Thats about 2 cups so that's probably okay for the volume. If the distance is less then you will have more volume pushed -- so if you have say 2' between the top of the ro/di resevoir and the outlet for the MJ you could be pushing as much as a quart at a time. That would be a bit much for the size of your tank/sump.

One further question about the volume infused (while we are waiting on test results) -- is this dumping into your sump, and if so, what is the size of the return chamber?
 
Be careful not to overdose. I killed $1000 worth of corals a year ago while trying to get the right setting. Are you using a pinpoint or checking manually?
Steve
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7840201#post7840201 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by crumbletop
An MJ1200 I think pushes about 80 gph at 4' of head (measured from the top of the water in the bucket to where the pump dumps out. Thats about 2 cups so that's probably okay for the volume. If the distance is less then you will have more volume pushed -- so if you have say 2' between the top of the ro/di resevoir and the outlet for the MJ you could be pushing as much as a quart at a time. That would be a bit much for the size of your tank/sump.

One further question about the volume infused (while we are waiting on test results) -- is this dumping into your sump, and if so, what is the size of the return chamber?
Click to expand...

The bucket and Kalk reactor are about 14 feet away from the sump/tank. The pump is on the very bottom of the bucket, and the top of the reactor where the buffered water leaves to go toward the tank is about 2 feet above the top of the bucket. I'm assuming it is pushing water up about 4 feet. But that head pressure is taking into consideration the volume of water inside the tube...for instance if you were using a MJ1200 as a return pump. That rate at 4' of head pressure is calculated by how much water is inside the 1/2" (roughly) pipe coming off the pump.

In my case, the pump is pushing water through about 3 feet of 1/2" tubing, and then it goes into the reactor which is 4" in diameter. There is a column of water above where the fresh water comes in that is about 20" tall, give or take. Calculating what the pump is dumping into the sump is skewed by the fact that there is roughly 2 feet of headpressure from the weight of the water in a 4" diameter pipe.

If I take the end of the kalk carrying pipe out of the water in the sump and watch...it isn't pushing out much more than 1 cup. The float switch is very sensitive...therefore it shuts the pump off after about 5-6 seconds.

The return chamber holds about 4 gallons I'd say. But the kalk enters the sump at the opposite end, in efforts to dilute it a little more before it heads to the tank.
 
Unless the pump is above the water level, you calculate the head pressure from the top of the water resevoir, not from where the pump is. Regardless, it looks like the volume is okay. The reason for asking about the return chamber size, is this is typically where the float switch is installed and thus water level fluctuations in a small chamber mean more frequent, smaller volume top offs, and larger return chambers (length x width) will push less frequent, larger volume top offs. My top off fires about every 10 minutes or so.

So based on your numbers, it looks like your Ca is too high and you are precipitating calcium carbonate. That will bring _down_ your pH. Balanced calcium at your current alkalinity is around 430.
 
There are a bunch of good chemistry articles here. Scroll down the page to the calcium articles.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102605

I'm not sure how to get the Ca down except to wait. I've never had calcium that high, so I haven't had to research it. It isn't dangerously elevated, it is likely just elevated enough to cause problems with your kalk dosing.

Some of the articles on the linked page have some "balance" information. I just plugged your numbers into the reef chemistry calculator (http://jdieck1.home.comcast.net/chemcalc.html) and it tells you what the balanced number would be for a given Ca or Alk. I dose Randy's two-part for the majority of my Ca and Alk needs, and run kalkwasser topoff cause my ph runs a little low. If I had to guess, I'd say that your Ca likely got high because of dosing based on the directions on supplement bottles (the "two capfulls, twice a week" kind of thing). Dosing based on actual measurements and using the chemistry calculator to see how much to dose works well and keeps things in balance.

I surely am no expert at this. The above links I have found to be very helpful, though. Hope this helps...

Jack
 
After retesting my water, here is the rundown again. It's more accurate this time. Last night I was in a rush. (Sorry guys)

This was tested at 10:55AM CDT. The lights on my tank don't come on until 2PM.

pH = 7.8
Alk = 8 dKH
Ca = 500 ppm

I'm getting ready to do a 6g water change. I'm using a sea salt that contains calcium. Is the water change going to make it worse?
 
That's a good point. I hadn't thought of a water change to bring it down. I would be cautious with bringing it down too fast, though. The corals get used to the levels and rapid changes can cause problems.

Test the new water before you do the water change. If the Ca in the new water is high then it will keep your tank water high...
 
I just tested the new water. The Ca level is 440 ppm. It's almost like I need to use a mix that doesn't contain calcium, or at least doesn't contain THAT much calcium.

I still don't have a good understanding of how to maintain a balanced level of Ca and Alk.

What about adding magnesium? Shouldn't that help to lower the Ca level and raise the Alk level? Trust me, I'm trying to understand it, but it hasn't sunken in yet.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7843937#post7843937 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by crumbletop
No need to add Mg at this point. Also, the Ca level in your salt sounds okay depending on what the alk is. Here is a good article to read. I'll try to look for others later -- I'm heading out with the family for a little while.

Reef Aquarium Water Parameters:
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php
Click to expand...


Should I have tested the Alk level in the new water?
 
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