Kalk Reactor = cloudy water

[crumbletop]

Yeah. For the purposes of trying to get a hang on the water parameters in your tank, it would be good to know the Alk and Ca, since that is what you are mainly struggling with. Your alk (if the morning reading is correct) is a bit low, and the Ca is a bit high. I'll bet your salt has a reasonably balanced Ca and Alk -- 440 is fine for the Ca -- much higher than the IO salt I use.

When I was first trying to maintain consistent and "ideal" params for my reef inhabitants I started off by using stuff like the seachem marine buffer. My alk got out of control doing that (not too high, but high). Then I realized that it was better to measure the values and then use something like Randy's two part or a commercial product like b-ionic two-part. That has worked very well, and many successful reefers do that. I use the two-part to dose when necessary based on the measured values and then use kalk-topoff to maintain Ca and Alk (and pH) a little better. My pH tends to run a bit low.

Here are a couple more articles that should be useful for your purposes:

Solving Calcium and Alkalinity Problems
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

Low pH: Causes and Cures
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm

 

[coral_reefer_25]

Crap. I've already changed the water...I didn't pull an Alk reading on it.

I also emptied and cleaned my Kalk reactor and refilled it with water. I figured out today that it holds 2.5 gallons of fresh water, so I put in 5 tablespoons of Mrs. Wages. It may need more in a couple of days, but at least I know I didn't put in too much.

Unfortunately, the water change didn't do much at all for the cloudiness. It's still just as cloudy as it was before the water change.

I'm going to look at the articles. Actually I've already read the first one, but the one on pH seems helpful.

 

[coral_reefer_25]

Well, after the water change and emptying/refilling the Kalk reactor, and adding only 5 tablespoons of Mrs. Wages, my tank parameters have drastically improved.

This afternoon when I got home from work I found the tank water about 98% totally clear, the pH was 8.3, Alk was 11 dKH, and Calcium was still between 500 and 520ppm. Although the 11dKH was a heck of a lot better balance with the calcium than the 8 dKH it was yesterday morning.

I'm going to try to test again in the morning before work to see what the params are after the lights have been off for several hours.

Thanks for all of the help. Those articles, although somewhat confusing, were a help. Now I just have to really watch my levels for the next couple of weeks to hopefully determine when I need to add more Mrs. Wages.

 

[coral_reefer_25]

I tested the water again this morning at 6:30CDT....the lights have been off since 9PM.

pH is 8.2
Alk is 11 dKH

Ca wasn't tested, but my pH has never been better in the mornings!

 

[crumbletop]

Sounds good. The cloudiness should continue to clear. I'd keep an eye on the params daily for the next several days to see if any negative trends develop.

 

[coral_reefer_25]

Yeah, I'm going to test again on Thursday morning. The water is clearer now than I've seen it in months.

 

[jdieck]

Ryan:

After reading the all the posts I can conlude that you were overdosing Kalk creatin gthe recipitation (cloudiness). By the way precipitation may lower the PH under certain circumstances.
It seems that by using less powder in the last load your addition was reduced below the precipitation point but given your latest readings it may still more than what your tank consumption is.

Here are some notes that might help you:
a) Kalk adds Calcium and Alkalinity. For every 1 meq/lt (2.8 dKh) of alkalinity it adds 20 ppm of Calcium. It just happens that this ratio is the same as the ratio of consumption. The issue is if that if you are using a salt that is not balanced for your water changes, the unbalance will continue. As an example Oceanic has more calcium and Magnesium than it should and less alkalinity than it should. Tropic Marin Pro has about the right amount of Calcium and Magnesium but too little alkalinity. IO has the right alkalinity but low Calcium and Magnesium. Get the point? so even if you achieve a balance in your aquarium you are going to unbalance it again with a water change.
To prevent this to happen you need to balance your new water mix before you add it to your aquarium. In other words supplement your freshly made water as required to reach your targets for Calcium Alkalinity and Magnesium. To do this I would recommend using Baking Soda to adjust Alkalinity, Calcium Chloride Powder (Peladow, Dow flake, TurboCalcium, ESV CaCL etc) to adjust the Calcium and a commercial magnesium additive (Kent Tech-M) to balance Magnesium. The calculator will help you to do so. Once you get familiar with the readings on your salt and find out that each time you make the mix you add similar amounts of supplements you may not even need to test, just add the supplements to the freshly made mix.

b) Your tank consumption of alkalinity and calcium is lower than the amount of kalk you are adding to replace evaporation. In other words you need to reduce the volume of Kalk and whatever additional volume is needed to match evaporation should be added as fresh water (RO/DI). To do this you may need to use RO/DI in your top off and set up the reactor with a controlled doser pump or use gravity to feed it trough a small valve that regulates the drip so you can adjust the Kalk addition independent of your evaporation.

Hope this info helps.
Jose

 

[coral_reefer_25]

I kind of figured I'd end up buying a different brand of mix to get this right. As of this morning, the water seems like it's getting cloudy again. I didn't have time to test the parameters this morning before I left for work, but I will test them when I get home.

I guess I'll buy some Instant Ocean mix this time.

Anybody want to trade some Oceanic Natural Sea Mix for some Instant Ocean???

 

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7869734#post7869734 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by coral_reefer_25
I kind of figured I'd end up buying a different brand of mix to get this right. As of this morning, the water seems like it's getting cloudy again. I didn't have time to test the parameters this morning before I left for work, but I will test them when I get home.

I guess I'll buy some Instant Ocean mix this time.

Anybody want to trade some Oceanic Natural Sea Mix for some Instant Ocean???

You can always mix your water using half and half. Oceanic will increase the Calcium and Magnesium on the IO which will provide the alkalinit that Oceanic miss. You still need to adjust your mixed water levels but you will need to supplement less

 

[coral_reefer_25]

True...I suppose I could do that.

Like I said, I'll take another look at things this evening.

Thanks for your help. We have a club meeting coming up on the 13th. Hopefully I can get a pretty good deal on some IO....if Aquatic Critter still carries it. I think they may only sell Oceanic now....???

 

[jdieck]

Forgot to mention that if the water is getting cloudy again you may turn off the reactor. Your Alk and Calcium was high anyway.

 

[coral_reefer_25]

Yeah....I'll try topping off with pure RO/DI for a few days and watch what happens.

 

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7872111#post7872111 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by coral_reefer_25
Yeah....I'll try topping off with pure RO/DI for a few days and watch what happens.

While you are at it. Test your alkalinity and then test again after 24 and 48 hours during the time you will be adding no supplements at all or making any water changes. This will help you determine your base line daily consumption making easier to calculate how much lime water you need to add to replace that consumption.
160 milliliters of saturated limewater will increase 10 gal of aquarium water by 0.5 dKh
So say if you find out that your daily consumption is 1 dKh then you will need to add 320 milliliters per day of Lime water for every 10 gallons in your tank.