Kalkwasser in ATO without a stirrer/reactor

[billygoat2000]

I read an article that tested kalk water after 1 month with precipitated kalk at bottom of container and without precipated kalk at bottom of container.

With precipated kalk, the calcium, ph did not go down. Without precipated kalk, the ph, kalk did go down. So it seem to me that a kalk stirrer (or pump reacotr) in an ATO to kalk container is not really needed as the kalk will saturate the water as needed by the precipated kalk.

i have an avast marine reactor... can i just fill it with a good bit of kalk/water. and as my ATO pushes the water into it, and then into the aquarium, would that be adequate?

in short, is a kalk stirrer really needed? or is the chamber in and of itself, adequte?

 

[thegrun]

No you do not need a stirrer, I used kalk without a stirrer for a few years. You can keep more kalk in suspension with a stirrer but it certainly is not necessary.

 

[downbeach]

I used to mix the kalk (fully saturated) in a separate container, let it settle for a day, and pour the clear saturated kalk into my ATO reservoir. Ultimately, I started using dosing pumps for the kalk along with Ca and Alk. So, I never used anything to mix/stir, with the exception of when I first made it.

If, by precipitated kalk you mean the undissolved kalk that is in the bottom of a container/reactor, then you have more kalk in reserve to dissolve when more plain water is added, keeping the kalkwasser at/near full saturation. Without the so called "precipitate" at the bottom of the container, all you're doing is diluting the available kalkwasser, making it weaker. Actual precipitate happens when the saturated kalkwasser comes in contact with CO2, at the surface, and precipitates out of solution, settling to the bottom of the container as insoluble calcium carbonate.

 

[billygoat2000]

If, by precipitated kalk you mean the undissolved kalk that is in the bottom of a container/reactor,

Yes, this is what I meant, not precipitated kale which is as you pointed out sodium carbonate, which is insoluble.

Without the so called "precipitate" at the bottom of the container, all you're doing is diluting the available kalkwasser, making it weaker.| Actual precipitate happens when the saturated kalkwasser comes in contact with CO2, at the surface, and precipitates out of solution, settling to the bottom of the container as insoluble calcium carbonate.

Thanks for clarifying.

I am trying to simplify my reef setup on my new build. My last tank was like a Rube Goldberg device. Occam's razor.

Ok, so I am going to use my 22"X8" avast reactor, bottom fill, fully sealed so no constant exposure to air, if that has any affect, and connect it inline to my ato. I top off .5 gallon per day.

And simply by osmosis, due to the slow rate of fill, the undissolved kalk at the bottom will saturate and become fully saturated limewater. No stirrer with the extra pump needed and I can repurpose old equipment. That is the plan

 

[2smokes]

A kalk stirrer its made to dose small amounts of higly concentrated kalk solution directly into the aquarium.Its not like when you use kalk in the top off water .The stirring mechanism should start to mix the kalk solution well ,before it gets poured into the tank so that the kalk will remain in suspension and concentrated.

 

[guppie]

Trying to understand how you have it setup, and how it works

 

[billygoat2000]

Trying to understand how you have it setup, and how it works

It is the same setup as having a kalk stirrer hooked up to the ATO, except no stirrer to keep it simple. I have my auto top off pumping into this reactor (similar but larger). It is about 25% filled with kalkwasser. The idea is, as the auto top off fills the aquarium, it pushes the water from the bottom up, and saturates the water through osmosis.

I do know that the water gets and stays saturated as long as there is visible kalkwasser in the bottom. A stirrer is not needed to keep it saturated from an experiment done for 1 month on limewater. To repeat a point I made, if there is no visible kalkwasser in the reactor, kalkwasser will lose its potency, but if there is visible kalkwasser, it does not.

What I do not know is that if I introduce more water, how long does it take it to saturate? It sounds like this will work and it eliminates a pump and complexity.

 

[billygoat2000]

A kalk stirrer its made to dose small amounts of higly concentrated kalk solution directly into the aquarium.Its not like when you use kalk in the top off water .The stirring mechanism should start to mix the kalk solution well ,before it gets poured into the tank so that the kalk will remain in suspension and concentrated.

I understand your point and how kalk stirrers are used. I am not putting kalk into the auto top off. I am simply feeding the pure RO/DI water from my auto top off into the kalk reactor. As my ATO fills the tank due to evaporation, it doses limewater automatically, so I don't need to have a setup to dose limewater. This is the same setup that many use to dose kalk using a kalk stirrer. I want to remove the stirrer part of it as it appears it is not needed.

 

[smatter]

Tunze's kalk reactor operates in a similar fashion. When the ato pump activates, a tangential stream of water is injected into the bottom of the chamber. This stirs the slurry at the bottom and saturated kalkwasser rises to and exits out of the top.

 

[UTCReefer]

My top off reservoir has a nice chalky layer on the bottom that gets stirred up when i add fresh water to it. I dont have anything stirring it and just figure that it naturally saturates itself over time. I was kind of wondering if it would ever disappear but the cloudy bottom layer has been there for quite some time now and ive stopped adding kalk powder to the container for the last few months now.

 

[SGT_York]

kalk reactors/stirrers just make the routine maintenance a bit easer as you only have to clean the reactor, it's a very small inconvenience. I personally do both, I have a 20G ATO reservoir that I mix, and run it through a small kalk stirrer at the refugium return section.

The benefit to not using a reactor is you can mix your kalk saturation where your tank needs it handy if your tank is new or you don't have a fully stocked calcium dependent tank. With a reactor you are mostly limited to full saturation.

 

[downbeach]

A potential problem with this set up will be the fact that you're using the water that is pumped from your ATO reservoir to mix the kalk, at the same time you're adding it to the DT, without allowing any time for the slurry to settle out. This could cause you to add not only the clear saturated kalkwasser, but also the unsettled slurry, which is something we try to avoid.

 

[homer1475]

Purely out of curiosity, why not just add 2 tsp per/g to the ATO water to fully saturate the water, and be done with it?

This sounds like its adding way more complexity then is really needed to dose kalk in the ATO.

In my limited understanding, kalk stirrers are typically used when adding kalk slurry directly to the tank in a precise dosed amounts, not through an ATO.

 

[billygoat2000]

Purely out of curiosity, why not just add 2 tsp per/g to the ATO water to fully saturate the water, and be done with it?

This sounds like its adding way more complexity then is really needed to dose kalk in the ATO.

In my limited understanding, kalk stirrers are typically used when adding kalk slurry directly to the tank in a precise dosed amounts, not through an ATO.

It should be less work. From what I am thinking... Fill the reactor, put the top back on. Connect the reactor, cleans it once every 6 months.

It is more work to put the kale in my ato. and the type of work that I don't like to do. I have a 20 gallon ato so it can last for about 20 days. First, My ato ends up getting filled with calcium carbonate, so I have to clean it, which requires moving it, a real pain because of its location/.

Second, I have to keep the pump lifted off the bottom to keep it from pumping precipitate.

And finally, if you keep kalk in a reservoir for 20 days, it will lose a lot of potency after 10 days because it is open to a lot of air at surface. My reactor is sealed and gets totally filled so very little surface air is available.

What I don't know is this, can the new water filling up the reactor become saturated as it enters without a stirrer? I have tunze osmolator

 

[billygoat2000]

A potential problem with this set up will be the fact that you're using the water that is pumped from your ATO reservoir to mix the kalk, at the same time you're adding it to the DT, without allowing any time for the slurry to settle out. This could cause you to add not only the clear saturated kalkwasser, but also the unsettled slurry, which is something we try to avoid.

I doubt this will happen as I have seen on the net, other people connecting stirrers to their ato's with no such complaints. This is the same thing, just without the stirrer. the water will be drained from the top of my avast reactor, not the bottom.

 

[smatter]

I don't know that you will be able to go 6 months without opening it up and adding more kalk. Kalkwasser in still reservoirs has been shown to lose very little potency in 30 days.

 

[billygoat2000]

I don't know that you will be able to go 6 months without opening it up and adding more kalk. Kalkwasser in still reservoirs has been shown to lose very little potency in 30 days.

I mean 6 months without cleaning it. 6 months would be 180 gallons of limewater. I would have to add kalk of course. The issue I am wondering about, is a stirrer needed to turn the water from the ato as it pushes into the reactor into fully saturated limewater? This is about half a gallon of kalk powder at 2 teaspoons per gallon of water.


Going to your point about limewater staying fully saturated for 30 days, I agree with you. A stirrer is not needed to keep already saturatedlimewater fully saturated. It is only needed to saturate new water.

It would have a contact time of say 12 hours, minimum as I lose a gallon a day through Evap and the reactor holds a gallon. How long does it take the kalk at the bottom of the reactor to convert the water into fully saturated limewater via osmosis?

If it happens within 12 hours, a kale reactor or stirrer is pointless for me. If it cannot be saturated without a stirrer, then obviously a stirrer is needed. When I get time I will experiment.

 

[2smokes]

I understand your point and how kalk stirrers are used. I am not putting kalk into the auto top off. I am simply feeding the pure RO/DI water from my auto top off into the kalk reactor. As my ATO fills the tank due to evaporation, it doses limewater automatically, so I don't need to have a setup to dose limewater. This is the same setup that many use to dose kalk using a kalk stirrer. I want to remove the stirrer part of it as it appears it is not needed.

It is not a bad idea.You could use kalk in the top off and also in a small reactor like your planning to make when the need for ca and alk is more than what the top off can handle.Youl have to make somme experiments to see how much kalk can stir that litle stream of water .There is no worry if you dose the kalk directly in the display but make sure its dosed near a wave pump so that it can not settle directly on the corals.Personally i think its a simple idea of a kalk stirrer but in reality might be more complicated to build and adjust than a kalk stirrer that has a motor to stir the kalk.