kick ich guidance

[ozorowsky]

Hi everyone,

I have a 125 gallon reef tank thats about 4 months new. I have not been quarantining my fish as I don't have a spare tank laying around. I know I need to shop for one.

I bought some kick ich to give it a try. I turned my protein skimmer off, and I am now on day 5 of treatment.

What I have done so far is pull out my phosphate/carbon bags, and dose the tank iwth kick ich.

Day 3, I turned the skimmer on, and that night washed the filter socks, did a water change, turned the skimmer off, and dosed the tank again.

I'm now at day 5 about to do same thing. Ich seems to have gotten worse on my fish.

Am I treating the tank properly?

Thank you

 

[Tin_Whistler]

I would be almost certain you're using kick ich properly... The problem with it is it doesn't work.

For proper treatment you'll want to either treat the fish with copper, or use a hypo treatment, both of which would have to be done in a hospital tank as it'll kill of all your inverts, and corals.

 

[sandwi54]

Please read the ich stickies on this forum. The only working treatments for ich are hyposalinity, copper, and tank transfer.

Kick-ich, rid-ich, ich-attack, or anything that sounds alike don't work.

 

[ozorowsky]

Please read the ich stickies on this forum. The only working treatments for ich are hyposalinity, copper, and tank transfer.

Kick-ich, rid-ich, ich-attack, or anything that sounds alike don't work.

sounds like I need to get a quarantine tank huh?

Would I be ok just buying like a 50 gallon hex aquarium and doing the hypo salinity in there? Do I have to put ALL my fish in there? (About 15 in my 125 gallon)

Or can I just put my Tang and clown fish in there?

 

[ozorowsky]

Also, do you guys think a UV Light will help me at all? Should I run one now or after the kick ich?

 

[scooter86]

UV will not work against Cryptocaryon.

 

[snorvich]

I would be almost certain you're using kick ich properly... The problem with it is it doesn't work.

For proper treatment you'll want to either treat the fish with copper, or use a hypo treatment, both of which would have to be done in a hospital tank as it'll kill of all your inverts, and corals.

Exactly.

 

[snorvich]

UV will not work against Cryptocaryon.

Very true. In any case getting it to pass by UV is not going to happen.

 

[snorvich]

sounds like I need to get a quarantine tank huh?

Yes you do.

Would I be ok just buying like a 50 gallon hex aquarium and doing the hypo salinity in there? Do I have to put ALL my fish in there? (About 15 in my 125 gallon)

All fish. Sorry.

Or can I just put my Tang and clown fish in there?

 

[ozorowsky]

Thank you. Please clarify one more thing for me. . .

If I get a cheapo tank that holds water throw some pvc pipe pieces in it, and lower salinity to 1.009 with a temp of 80 degrees. I can put all my fish in there for 9 weeks, and leave my corals and inverts in main tank for that 9 weeks.

After 9 weeks drip acclimate each fish to add it back to main tank?

What happens if ick re occurs in my main tank? I hope I don't have to go through this every few months.

Thank you for the advice.

 

[snorvich]

Thank you. Please clarify one more thing for me. . .

If I get a cheapo tank that holds water throw some pvc pipe pieces in it, and lower salinity to 1.009 with a temp of 80 degrees. I can put all my fish in there for 9 weeks, and leave my corals and inverts in main tank for that 9 weeks.

That is correct. However I would, if possible keep temperature a bit lower. Cryptocaryon irritans is often in the gills and a lower temperature increases the dissolved oxygen in the water. Also, remember that SG 1.009 is critical to maintain so you need a calibrated refractometer (calibrated with Pinpoint solution)

After 9 weeks drip acclimate each fish to add it back to main tank?

Going up requires more time than going down

What happens if ick re occurs in my main tank? I hope I don't have to go through this every few months.

No the fallow period wipes out ich as it needs a fish host to survive. You might read the sticky I wrote on this

Thank you for the advice.

You are most welcome!

 

[Tin_Whistler]

Thank you. Please clarify one more thing for me. . .

If I get a cheapo tank that holds water throw some pvc pipe pieces in it, and lower salinity to 1.009 with a temp of 80 degrees. I can put all my fish in there for 9 weeks, and leave my corals and inverts in main tank for that 9 weeks.

After 9 weeks drip acclimate each fish to add it back to main tank?

What happens if ick re occurs in my main tank? I hope I don't have to go through this every few months.

Thank you for the advice.

That's more or less how it works. You want to make sure you keep an eye on ammonia, and when you lower the salinity to do it slowly. When you raise it you'll want to do so even slower.

And yep, after 9 weeks you can acclimate them to your tank and put them back in there.

The overall goal is to never have to do this again. If your current tank and fish are all ich free, and you quarantine all new fish making sure they're treated for or free of the parasite then you shouldn't have to.

 

[snorvich]

There are a couple worth while stickies such as this.

 

[ozorowsky]

That's more or less how it works. You want to make sure you keep an eye on ammonia, and when you lower the salinity to do it slowly. When you raise it you'll want to do so even slower.

And yep, after 9 weeks you can acclimate them to your tank and put them back in there.

The overall goal is to never have to do this again. If your current tank and fish are all ich free, and you quarantine all new fish making sure they're treated for or free of the parasite then you shouldn't have to.

So Ick isn't just going to form in the future right? It was somehow introduced into my tank?

And as far as acclimation to lower salinity, I've heard that you can just drop them in; I've also read do 50% water changes until it hits 1.009. I love my fish don't get me wrong but I'm lazy. Would I be ok just dropping them in or is that a surefire way to kill them?

And are the inverts ok to leave in tank or they have to be qt'ed too?

 

[Tin_Whistler]

Yep, they're not anything special. Just a parasite that was latched onto a fish when it was put in the tank. So if you kill them all they won't come back unless they're reintroduced to the tank.

I would advise doing it slower than 50% water changes, to me that seems to fast.

And nope, ich is fish only, inverts/corals can stay in your tank.

 

[sandwi54]

I would advise doing it slower than 50% water changes, to me that seems to fast.

I agree with this. Anytime you do a large water change (I consider large as anything > 30%), you must make sure pH and temperature match very closely. A 50% water change is very major and needs to be done correctly. Many hobbyists kill their fish through improper large water changes, while they try to treat for disease.

If you do not have pH adjustment skills, then add the replacement water slowly, over a course of one hour. Kindda like what you do to acclimate a fish.

 

[ozorowsky]

I agree with this. Anytime you do a large water change (I consider large as anything > 30%), you must make sure pH and temperature match very closely. A 50% water change is very major and needs to be done correctly. Many hobbyists kill their fish through improper large water changes, while they try to treat for disease.

If you do not have pH adjustment skills, then add the replacement water slowly, over a course of one hour. Kindda like what you do to acclimate a fish.

Just an update: I am still looking for a suitable tank to use as a quarantine. My corals all look fine but most of my fish shrunk up and died off. My gobies are all fine, but oddly just about everything else died. Hippo tang is looking rough.

Nitrates are 0, PH etc is fine.

Sucks, looks like I'll be starting over though.

When I start my re stock, I am going to A) quarantine all my current fish for 9 weeks B) re acclimate the fish to my tank C) all new fish will be quarantine for 9 weeks in hypo salinity.

Now my question on the quarantine is lets say I buy 2 fish, do I have to wait 9 weeks before adding say a 3rd or 4th to quarantine tank?

IE:
1) I buy a blue hippo tang 10/11/11 put in quarantine
2) I buy 4 clown fish 10/25/11 put in same quarantine
3) Move blue hippo to main display 12/18/11

Do I have to worry about Ich that may have come with the clown fish hopping on the hippo or not too big of an issue due to hypo salinity?

Sorry for the dumb questions.

 

[sandwi54]

There are no dumb questions and your questions are very good.

Any time you buy new fish with fish already existing in a QT, the clock restarts. I don't quite go to the extent of quarantining for 9 weeks; I do 4-6 weeks typically depending on whether I apply prophylactic treatment. I usually do prazipro and cupramine on all new fish, except for the selected few who could be very sensitive to copper.

I would use cupramine instead of hyposalinity on the new fish as cupramine kills far more different types of parasites than hypo, which only kills ich. Keep in mind that there are a lot more parasites than just ich, even though ich is what is discussed the most since it's common and very hard to get rid of in a DT. This makes QT a very much necessary item for fishkeeping.

When you start over again, don't pack your QT with fish. I would say just 2-3 small ones at a time. There are a couple of reasons for this. When the number of fish increases, so does the chance of diseases that may need different kinds of medicaitons and those meds may not be used together. QT is also a place to let fish settle down and get used to captive life and eat well without harassment from tank mates, so if you pack too many fish in a QT, that kind of defeats the purpose of it.

I hope this helps getting you back on track. For the current issue, just pick up any cheap used tank on craigslist, throw a heater and HOB filter on it and get all the fish in for treatment. goby is quite resistant to ich so that's why you're not seeing symptoms on him, even though he could still be infected in the gills. On the other hand, hippo tang is probably the least resistant out of all the marine fish, so you want to get him out asap for treatment.

 

[ozorowsky]

There are no dumb questions and your questions are very good.

Any time you buy new fish with fish already existing in a QT, the clock restarts. I don't quite go to the extent of quarantining for 9 weeks; I do 4-6 weeks typically depending on whether I apply prophylactic treatment. I usually do prazipro and cupramine on all new fish, except for the selected few who could be very sensitive to copper.

I would use cupramine instead of hyposalinity on the new fish as cupramine kills far more different types of parasites than hypo, which only kills ich. Keep in mind that there are a lot more parasites than just ich, even though ich is what is discussed the most since it's common and very hard to get rid of in a DT. This makes QT a very much necessary item for fishkeeping.

When you start over again, don't pack your QT with fish. I would say just 2-3 small ones at a time. There are a couple of reasons for this. When the number of fish increases, so does the chance of diseases that may need different kinds of medicaitons and those meds may not be used together. QT is also a place to let fish settle down and get used to captive life and eat well without harassment from tank mates, so if you pack too many fish in a QT, that kind of defeats the purpose of it.

I hope this helps getting you back on track. For the current issue, just pick up any cheap used tank on craigslist, throw a heater and HOB filter on it and get all the fish in for treatment. goby is quite resistant to ich so that's why you're not seeing symptoms on him, even though he could still be infected in the gills. On the other hand, hippo tang is probably the least resistant out of all the marine fish, so you want to get him out asap for treatment.

Thank you very much.

One more question: What is a good size quarantine tank?

 

[ozorowsky]

Also I was just reading you should also quarantine inverts before adding to display tank.

How about corals? If I buy more corals in future will I have to quarantine them too?