Hello again!
Phil and Amanda,
I like this board! I have had it bookmarked
for at least a couple of months, but I don't think I ever opened a thread and read it. However Amanda, after you suggested I check this board out in two different emails ... well I took your advice and I must again say "Thanks!". This morning I opened a few random threads and, frankly, assessed them more for spirit and tone than content. Seems from my admittedly small random sampling that most of the contributors on this board are interested in sharing information or solving problems. Hooray! By Larry's grace I'll be posting here regularly. Thanks Larry for extending Ruby Reef the privelege of posting here. I appreciate that its a touchy issue letting a company on board, but I assure you we will strive to stay in line.
As soon as I have some time I'm going to start a thread entitled something like "The persistance of active and latent ich infestations". However, below is a cut and paste job from a post I entered elsewhere. It addresses some of the questions raised in this thread. I'll come back again later to address those no addressed below. We would appreciate your comments, remarks and reactions as the issues discussed below will impact impending label changes.
1. DRAWBACKS OF HIGHLY SPECIFIC ACTION.
Kick-Ich is reef safe because it is specific for ich. As such it affords no protection against other parasites including dinoflagellates, flukes, bacteria or fungi. When, for example, fish pass quickly from trans-Pacific packing bags to hobbyists' reefs without an intervening quarantine period (the typical mistake of the eager newbie), the recipient tanks often become infected with ich, but may also become infected with one or more other parasites. The most common "second" parasite is the lethally dangerous dinoflagellate Amyloodinia. Amyloodinia can exhibit as smallish white spots (usually a lot of them), and other manifest symptoms can easily be lost in the background of an active ich infestation. When Amyloodinia infestations are missed and only ich is addressed, i.e., with Kick-Ich, lethal dinoflagellate blooms can occur. To address this we intend to add an appropriate warning panel to the instruction label, and we may provide information that Kick-Ich and Rally can be safely used together in a reef tank to provide blanket protection. Finally, we are pressing as hard as possible to get the FACE water tests out of the pipeline and into the hobby arena, thus providing the means for definitive disease identification.
REEF CENTRAL NOTE: As explained elsewhere, Ruby Reef is developing FACE format water tests (Fast, Accurate, Cheap and Easy) that can detect water borne factors that are specific to various parasites. Tests in the pipeline most pertinent to the marine hobby are Crypto, Amyloodinia and Brooklynella.
2. DRAWBACKS OF A MINIMAL DOSING REGIMEN.
The dosing regimen recommended on the Kick-Ich label is, by design, minimal and simplistic (2.0 ozs/25gals/days 1, 4, 7...). Kick-Ich is expensive to manufacture, package and ship. A priori, it is expensive to the end user. Therefore we wanted to minimize cash outlay by hobbyists by minimizing requisite product consumption. Further, we knew as surely as the instructions are printed in English that (a) intrepid hobbyists and professionals would use at least twice the recommended dosage, and/or various users wouldn't account for factors such as water displacement by LR. Finally, we didn't want to introduce the product with a confusing array of dosing schemes based, for example, on whether or not a protein skimmer will be used during treatment of the tank.
From a combination of in-house testing, beta-site tests and two years of test marketing we knew that the dosage regimen printed on the current label is effective in at least 90% - 95% of applications if protein skimmers are turned off, but that the dosing regimen had to be accelerated to as high as twice the average daily dosage (3.0 ozs/25 gals/days 1, 3, 5 ... = 2x $$$)to accomodate certain protein skimmers. Some protein skimmers (depending on make, model, air/water flow rates, bioload, etc.) significantly increase the rate of degradation of Kick-Ich's active ingredients as a matter of process, and/or others, especially Berlin type skimmers working against a heavy bioload, tend to sequester the active compounds in the accumulated scum.
As we only had one protein skimmer related water chemistry problem in each of two years of test marketing, and given the desire to minimize consumption both for the sake of economy as well as 25+ years of cultivated sensibilities regarding good housekeeping practices, a decision was taken to list only the minimal dosage regimen on our first labels. We have subsequently included a paranthetical comment that the dosage regimen can be accelerated by 50% (2.0 ozs/25 gals/days 1, 3, 5 ...). Ironically, persistant cases usually occur in tanks that have a large excess in biofiltration capacity: in such cases the microbial degradation rate of the active compounds can be high enough that little or no protection is afforded 48 - 60 hours after a 2.0 0z/25 gals dose, and so the dosing frequency has to be increased as described above.
During our just completed first year of active national marketing, we encountered perhaps 5 or 6 confirmed water chemistry problems related to lack of skimmer function. This has caused us to be concerned that a lethally dangerous situation might develop if the protein skimmer is turned off in a tank with already precarious water chemistry and a heavy bioload. Heinrich's post [NOTE: seen elsewhere] alluded to this with his astute observation that there can be problems in tanks with near maximal bioloads (I will respond directly to Heinrich in a subsequent post). With this consideration in mind we are considering listing the fully accelerated dosage regimen on the instruction panel.
An important consideration in this regard:
We are comfortable that the fully accelerated dosage regimen is reef safe. We applied it for 30 consecutive days (skimmers off) across an integrated system that contained pure and mixed reefs, FOWRLs, FOs and inverts only tanks without deleterious effects. One beta site investigator who really wanted to be convinced of Kick-Ich's safety added inverts to a FOWLR, turned off the protein skimmer and added 4.0 ozs/25 gals every 18 hours for several days! No adverse effects were observed, nor was there any detectable perturbation of steady state levels of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Finally, a large public aquarium (I don't have permission to use the name) has successfully used the fully accelerated regimen (skimmers on) on a 10,000+ gal reef display with no adverse effects on corals or other inverts. However, we have never systematically tested for safety, nor are we considering any such tests at this time, at dosages of 6.0 ozs/25 gals or higher, and so we don't know what will happen when one of those intrepid, double-the-recommended-dose hobbyists or professionals try it.
You certainly have my attention. It's a fine line to be drawn. I want to encourage new options while staying grounded in reality. Personally, I tend to be a pretty skeptical person, especially in this area as we all know that "reef-safe" treatment methods have come and gone. But the only way this hobby advances is if people try new things. And a reef safe treatment alternative is something desperately needed, IMO. 
