Killer Clowns?

[kross62948]

I have had a 180 gallon tank with a 20 gallon sump and skimmer set up for about 4 months or so. I probably have between 180-200 lbs of live rock with tons of nooks and caves and hiding places. My temp is set at 78. After the tank cycled, the first fish I added were pair of small, tank-raised false perc clowns. I then added a bunch of snails and crabs. They were all doing fine after a couple of weeks so I tried adding a yellow clown goby. He spent most of his time in the rocks and lasted a couple of days. Tried a bicolor blennie...lasted a day. Started adding a liquid called Microbacter for a week just to make sure there was no ammonia or nitrates. Took water to the LFS and had it tested again. Zeros across the board. Tried another yellow clown goby. Dead the next day. Thinking that a larger fish would fare better if the clowns were killing the fish, I bought a tang. It ate like a horse, was getting fat, ruled the tank and lasted a little over a week. I added an auto top off to make sure the salinity was constant at .024-.025. Added a probe for possible stray voltage. Bought a couple of Blue Chromis. Dead in 3 days. Waited a couple of weeks and then bought a six line wrasse. It did fine for the day I bought it but was dead in the sand the next day. Besides the tang, all of the fish I bought were supposed to be hearty, starter fish.

The clowns, the crabs and snails, and a small patch of palythoas that was on some live rock I added all seem to be thriving. The clowns stay on the far right third of the tank 99% of the time. The gobies, blenny and wrasse were in and around the rocks on the far left third of the tank 99% of the time. The only fish that would swim around the clowns were the chromis and the tang. I have never seen the clowns be aggressive with any of the named fish and would swim away when the tang was near. Could the clowns be killing the fish?

Anyone have any suggestions? My next step is to get a 10-20 gallon quarantine tank set up and put the clowns in there and then try another six line wrasse or something"¦I need a quarantine tank anyway.

 

[Walla2GSP]

Very likely, Clownfish are a very territorial species of Damselfish that aggressively defend their area of the tank. If you add more fish, either remove the Clownfish and re-aquascape replacing all the fish at the same time into the "new tank" or leave the clownfish in a QT for a couple months while the other fish get settled then reintroduce the clownfish and hope they don't go right back to patrolling their old area of the tank.

 

[ericarenee]

Not very likely... in a 180 gallon tank the clowns will claim a piece of it as it seems they have done in your tank. They will not attack fish just to kill them. only to run them from there space.
As you said they have picked there space and stay there.. You Could have some kinda of Crab in there getting the other fish in there sleep..Are the other fish Just dieing or do they appear to be picked on..

even a healthy fish getting bullied will last much longer then over night.. i also doubt a clown taking down a yellow Tang that is healthy....

Most Likely your still having amonia spikes
1. some kinda of killer crab (the exist and not uncommon)
2. getting sick fish
3. water quality or other tank issues

ohh and you should NEVER ADD anything that you do not QT Yourself. your only setting yourself up for a bad situation.

also how long has this tank been up... tank raised clowns can survive in a cycling tank quite often

 

[Dkuhlmann]

I agree with Eric, especially since you say the clowns are a small pair. To me this means around an inch which most are when sold from LFS unless they've been there a while, and many are smaller than that.

You could have any number of bad hitchhiker's. Bobbit or Eunice worm comes to mind, or some type of crab. But if they're not marked up or beaten up could be like Eric said of an Ammonia spike. This of course is all a guess without seeing your tank.

 

[ericarenee]

I agree with Eric, especially since you say the clowns are a small pair. To me this means around an inch which most are when sold from LFS unless they've been there a while, and many are smaller than that.

You could have any number of bad hitchhiker's. Bobbit or Eunice worm comes to mind, or some type of crab. But if they're not marked up or beaten up could be like Eric said of an Ammonia spike. This of course is all a guess without seeing your tank.

Thank you but its actually Erica-Renee.. Erica will do..


i KNOW very male dominated forum. I will let you live this time.. :debi:

 

[gone fishin]

Thank you but its actually Erica-Renee.. Erica will do..


i KNOW very male dominated forum. I will let you live this time.. :debi:

:lolspin: Nice to see you back, it has been dull.

I agree with the others I doubt it is the clowns. I would suspect something else but at this point it would be hard to narrow anything down. Can you describe how the fish looked when they died. beat up looking, spots, sloughing skin, red spots, open lesions/sores, where they gasping at the surface.

 

[anthonys51]

Thank you but its actually Erica-Renee.. Erica will do..


i KNOW very male dominated forum. I will let you live this time.. :debi:

i was going to agree with eric too, was going to say one smart guy, but couldnt figure our what "eric are nee" means lol

guess i am not so smart
erica renee makes more sense

 

[anthonys51]

where are you getting this fish. most pet shop run there tanks much lower than 1.025. if your just adding these fish right to your tank, that could be the problem.

 

[monkeybiz]

i'd say to buy some test kits and test the water yourself. a fully cycled tank should still have some nitrates, as those are removed mainly by water changes. my guess is that ammonia or some type of crab / mantis shrimp is to be blamed.

 

[anthonys51]

i'd say to buy some test kits and test the water yourself. a fully cycled tank should still have some nitrates, as those are removed mainly by water changes. my guess is that ammonia or some type of crab / mantis shrimp is to be blamed.

imo too many fish dying way to quick in too big a tank to be a crab. but do you notice these fish half eaten when you find them dead. dont really think a crab would get these fish so fast in a 180

 

[kross62948]

Thanks for everyone's replies! The fish have no spots, bites, lesions...no outward signs of distress. Although, one of the clown gobies and one of the chromis were swimming in the morning and suddenly darted really quickly into the rocks and glass (like headfirst suicide) and then were floating (dead). Have you seen or heard of this before.

50 lbs of the live rock came from a very established 200 gallon tank. He has had the same fish in there for 2-3 years with no problems. The rock had a lot of tiny starfish and stomatella snails but the only worms I've seen are either spaghetti worms or speonid worms.(Really thin worms that come out of a tube.) I haven't seen any crabs other than the red legged hermits that I've added.

As far as the ammonia spikes...I tested the water for two weeks everyday at different times of the day and my ammonia, nitrites and nitrates have been 0 every time. I've taken my water into the lfs and it tested 0 on his tests as well. I had an algae problem and tested for phosphates and they were 0 as well. Is there anything else I should test for?

 

[anthonys51]

Thanks for everyone's replies! The fish have no spots, bites, lesions...no outward signs of distress. Although, one of the clown gobies and one of the chromis were swimming in the morning and suddenly darted really quickly into the rocks and glass (like headfirst suicide) and then were floating (dead). Have you seen or heard of this before.

50 lbs of the live rock came from a very established 200 gallon tank. He has had the same fish in there for 2-3 years with no problems. The rock had a lot of tiny starfish and stomatella snails but the only worms I've seen are either spaghetti worms or speonid worms.(Really thin worms that come out of a tube.) I haven't seen any crabs other than the red legged hermits that I've added.

As far as the ammonia spikes...I tested the water for two weeks everyday at different times of the day and my ammonia, nitrites and nitrates have been 0 every time. I've taken my water into the lfs and it tested 0 on his tests as well. I had an algae problem and tested for phosphates and they were 0 as well. Is there anything else I should test for?

how are you accumulating the fish

 

[kross62948]

The lfs has his salinity at 1.021 so I've been doing the drip acclimation. Got a few of the drip acclimation kits from Foster and Smith and have been following their directions.

 

[gone fishin]

out of curiosity what type of flow do you have in the tank?

 

[anthonys51]

i would also test the water yourself. but really think maybe your buying sick fish. 180 gallons with 2 tiny clowns and another tiny fish wouldnt be much of a bioload. try buying a fish from another pet store

 

[kross62948]

For flow I have a Coral Life Turbo Sea 1090 for the return pump and two Hydor Koralia Circulation Pumps (one really big one, one smaller one) inside the tank.

I think the lfs guy knows what he's doing. All the fish I've bought from him, he's had in his store for two weeks or more, except for the chromis. And he still has several of the chromis from the same batch in his store now. My only other option for lfs is Petco and their fish don't really look too good.

 

[anthonys51]

guess your tank is Bermuda triangle then

 

[kross62948]

I hear you Anthony The guy at the lfs has been doing this for 20 years and said he can't figure it out either. His advice all along has been to take it slow and don't waste my money on expensive fish until we figure it out.

I need a quarantine tank anyway, so I think I'll buy a 10 or 20 gallon, start it out at the salinity of the lfs (1.021) and slowly raise it up to the salinity in my 180 (1.025).

Everyone on here think that 1.024-1.025 is good or should I slowly change that as well?

 

[anthonys51]

That's good


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[snorvich]

Not very likely... in a 180 gallon tank the clowns will claim a piece of it as it seems they have done in your tank. They will not attack fish just to kill them. only to run them from there space.
As you said they have picked there space and stay there.. You Could have some kinda of Crab in there getting the other fish in there sleep..Are the other fish Just dieing or do they appear to be picked on..

even a healthy fish getting bullied will last much longer then over night.. i also doubt a clown taking down a yellow Tang that is healthy....

Most Likely your still having amonia spikes
1. some kinda of killer crab (the exist and not uncommon)
2. getting sick fish
3. water quality or other tank issues

ohh and you should NEVER ADD anything that you do not QT Yourself. your only setting yourself up for a bad situation.

also how long has this tank been up... tank raised clowns can survive in a cycling tank quite often

What she said (bolding added by me)