Kinda of new to the hobby...preparing better this time around but need advice...

[Civicman86]

So I have been on this forum for a while (joined in 2005) and first dipped into SW at that time. It was a disaster. I was in college at the time and half assed my setup. Had salt creep everywhere, not enough flow, all around just not a good system. My, now current wife, swore she would never let me have a SW tank after seeing the disaster I had back in 2005. Well she is going to let me try again. I want to make sure I get it right this time so I have been lurking and doing a lot of reading on this site.

So to start I'm looking to start with a FOWL 75g (48x19x22) standard tank with a custom stand that was built by my wifes grandfather (was a retired carpenter). I want to do my build with the thoughts of possibly progressing to having just a few corals if I can prove my ability with FOWL.

Here is a list of the things that I have researched for purchase and questions if I have any.

• 
  75g Tank - Already own. Really want a rimless tank from glasscages but will upgrade in a few years if I can prove my success. I plan to drill this myself. Planning for two holes for the overflow and two for the return? Does placement matter on the returns? Was thinking one on each side of the overflow.
  
  Overflow - Reef Savy Ghost Overflow
  
  Sump - I need to measure how big of a tank I can fit under my stand. Is it okay to put some rock in the sump to increase rock surface area? I'm not wanting to pack the DT with a huge mount of LR. Pictures below of my dream scapes. Besides the skimmer and return pump, anything else recommended for the sump?
  
  Return Pump - ??? Have not looked into these yet. It's critical this system runs as quiet as possible. It will be sitting outside of a bedroom in the basement.
  
  Powerheads - Turbelle Nanostream 6025 (740 gph) x2 along with Tunze Multicontroller 7096. This setup should get me 19x turnover plus whatever I get from the sump return.
  
  Protein Skimmer - Reef Octopus Classic 150EXT 6". Big enough?
  
  Lighting - Lots of questions here. I know since I'm only doing FOWL that lighting does not have to be as crazy. The one thing I really want is the shimmer effect. From what I read T5's will not give me that effect. It seems to be between MH and LED. I really like the ability to change 'conditions' with LEDs even if only visual. Thoughts on this? Right now I was looking at TWO Hydra TwentySix HD units. I think they would be good for future corals but if I can get a setup at a much lower cost and still get the shimmer then I can be talked out of these.
  
  Live Rock - Looking at approx 80 lbs. Again I don't want a DT just packed with rock but understand that it's needed for filtration. Does FOWL change the normal recommendation for about per gallon?
  
  RO/DI Unit - I will most likely end up getting one of these units but are the 100% a must with FOWL? I live in Louisville, KY who has been consistently rated the top tap water in the United states.
  
  Live Sand - I REALLY like the look of a SSB. I know there are a million opinions on this. From what I gather as long as I vacuum and keep the sand clean then a SSB should be okay? Thoughts on this?
  
  Heaters - Jager TruTemp 200w x2.
  
  Red Sea Marine Case Test Kit - Contains Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite, PH, Alkalinity. Do I need all of these? Small expense so I'm not really worried either way.
  
  Salt - All I know is IO is not what I want. Not sure what I need for FOWL --- and is there really a cost savings for a salt used with FOWL compared to reef. If not I'd like to just use the reef salt.
  
  CUC - No idea how many of anything I need. Was thinking a crew of Nas. Snails, some blue legged hermits (maybe?), anything else?
  
  Fish - Kole Tang to start. Later I would like to add a false clown since everyone needs a clown, watchman goby with pistol, Peppermint shrimp (?). I'd really like to have 3 fish that swim together but it seems to be hard with my size tank. I like color and the only two fish I'm really stuck on is the Kole and Clown.
  
  ATO - May wait to purchase this at a later date. Again once I prove I cannot make a mess of the system then Ill invest. Until then I can top off daily.
  

Anything I missed that is a must have? Anything I put on here that I don't necessarily have to have?

One last question right now is about salt creep. What are the best practices to reduce or eliminate salt creep? It seems everyone's tanks pictures never have any creep...my first tank was uncontrollable.

Sketches on tank layout and piping will be started soon I hope.
I very much appreciate your time reading this and any feedback you can provide.

 

[Breadman03]

Tagging for later, but some quick thoughts.

A single Ghost overflow will handle all the flow you want. Set it up for BeanAnimal drains and never have to worry about noise or salt creep from it. You can easily use 1" pipes and will want a single gate valve in the siphon line.

One return line will be plenty (though I have two). It only serves to get clean water back from your filtration.

Instant Ocean is a fine salt and is about as budget friendly as it gets. Don't spring for Reef Crystals because you won't have any need for the excess elements.

I'm a big fan of the Red Dragon return pumps because they are essentially silent, but there are a few DC pumps that are good in addition to a few AC pumps that are known to be very quiet and proven to be long lasting. Tunze and Eheim are two of them.

Can't go wrong with Tunze powerheads.

As far as lighting goes, I'd look at saving some coin here. "Reef" lighting can get pricey, but you only need enough light to see the fish. If you want room for growth, maybe a pair of Kessil 160's.

 

[xanthurum]

Quarantine tank, you forgot the most important thing.

 

[Ron Reefman]

• 
  75g Tank - Already own. Really want a rimless tank from glasscages but will upgrade in a few years if I can prove my success. I plan to drill this myself. Planning for two holes for the overflow and two for the return? Does placement matter on the returns? Was thinking one on each side of the overflow.
  
  75g is a good size to start with. I'd HIGHLY recommend you do 1 drain that does all the work and 1 drain set up just a bit higher then the first as an EMERGENCY drain. You may never need it, but if you ever do, you'll be so happy to come home and hear that emergency drain making slurpy noises and find there's no water on the floor from an overflowing tank!
  
  Overflow - Reef Savy Ghost Overflow
  
  Sump - I need to measure how big of a tank I can fit under my stand. Is it okay to put some rock in the sump to increase rock surface area? I'm not wanting to pack the DT with a huge mount of LR. Pictures below of my dream scapes. Besides the skimmer and return pump, anything else recommended for the sump?
  
  Are you considering a sump with a refugium? You can put LR in the sump, I always do. Besides the return pump and skimmer, you may want filter socks and room for a reactor (carbon, GFO, phosguard). I don't run any of those on a regular basis, but I have the reactor already plumbed in so I can run carbon or GFO easily if I ever feel the need. There is one other point I'll make at the end under extras.
  
  Return Pump - ??? Have not looked into these yet. It's critical this system runs as quiet as possible. It will be sitting outside of a bedroom in the basement.
  
  Get a controllable DC pump. I use Jebao because they are inexpensive (so I can have a back up sitting on the shelf) and they have proven to be quite reliable. There are more expensive ones if money isn't an issue. They have speed (flow) control which makes them MUCH more versatile and they run as quiet as any other pump.
  
  Powerheads - Turbelle Nanostream 6025 (740 gph) x2 along with Tunze Multicontroller 7096. This setup should get me 19x turnover plus whatever I get from the sump return.
  
  As good as any. I just saw that Current has some really nice, small, remote controllable powerhead, wavemakers at quite reasonable prices. My friend owns an LFS and he just set a small one up in a 4'x2'x1' frag tank. The controller can run 2 pumps but he only used one and it made for really nice motion in the tank. And the remote control is really nice. I'm considering switching from Jebao and Hydor to these.
  
  Protein Skimmer - Reef Octopus Classic 150EXT 6". Big enough?
  
  I never offer advice on skimmers.
  
  Lighting - Lots of questions here. I know since I'm only doing FOWL that lighting does not have to be as crazy. The one thing I really want is the shimmer effect. From what I read T5's will not give me that effect. It seems to be between MH and LED. I really like the ability to change 'conditions' with LEDs even if only visual. Thoughts on this? Right now I was looking at TWO Hydra TwentySix HD units. I think they would be good for future corals but if I can get a setup at a much lower cost and still get the shimmer then I can be talked out of these.
  
  Hydra says they cover 18" x 18" and your tank is 4", right? You can raise the Hydras higher and get the coverage you need and that's fine for a fish only and/or easy corals. If you really get into corals you can always get a 3rd fixture. You might look at the Reef Breeders Photon V2 in the 32" or 48" size. You save a bit of money and get full coverage and a fixture that can grow anything with as much or more color control (6 channels). The shimmer is a bit less, but I have 2 tanks with them and I'm happy with the shimmer I get. It's a personal choice.
  
  Live Rock - Looking at approx 80 lbs. Again I don't want a DT just packed with rock but understand that it's needed for filtration. Does FOWL change the normal recommendation for about per gallon?
  
  Fish are the primary reason you need LR. Their food and poop is why you need a lot of bacterial filtration. But having some of it in your sump is also OK.
  
  RO/DI Unit - I will most likely end up getting one of these units but are the 100% a must with FOWL? I live in Louisville, KY who has been consistently rated the top tap water in the United states.
  
  Not using RO/DI water for your fish is like asking yo to live with the smog in Beijing China. You can survive it, but do you want too? Water quality is job one for fish, coral and anything else that is alive in your tank!
  
  Live Sand - I REALLY like the look of a SSB. I know there are a million opinions on this. From what I gather as long as I vacuum and keep the sand clean then a SSB should be okay? Thoughts on this?
  
  SSB? (Shallow Sand Bed?) If you use water other than RO/DI and don't do water changes with RO/DI water, any sand will end up a mess. And even if you do, don't get surprised when in the first few months you get a bloom or tree of diatoms, other algae or cyanobacteria. It happens in almost every new tank. BTW, I almost never vacuum my sand.
  
  Red Sea Marine Case Test Kit - Contains Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite, PH, Alkalinity. Do I need all of these? Small expense so I'm not really worried either way.
  
  After 6 months you really won't need nitrite anymore. I only do ammonia if something is missing in the tank and I want to see if there is an ammonia spike... which there almost never is if you have a healthy bacteria colony. Alk is very important to corals and you can add calcium and magnesium as well. In a fish only tank with regular water changes Ca, alk and Mg are probably not very important. But again, water quality is JOB ONE!
  
  Salt - All I know is IO is not what I want. Not sure what I need for FOWL --- and is there really a cost savings for a salt used with FOWL compared to reef. If not I'd like to just use the reef salt.
  
  What's wrong with IO? It and IO Reef Crystals are probably the most used salts in the hobby! I have used IO and IO RC for 10 years. I've tried a few others and there just isn't much difference, especially for a fish only tank!
  
  CUC - No idea how many of anything I need. Was thinking a crew of Nas. Snails, some blue legged hermits (maybe?), anything else?
  
  Start with less and buy more as needed. Most people buy too many.
  
  Fish - Kole Tang to start. Later I would like to add a false clown since everyone needs a clown, watchman goby with pistol, Peppermint shrimp (?). I'd really like to have 3 fish that swim together but it seems to be hard with my size tank. I like color and the only two fish I'm really stuck on is the Kole and Clown.
  
  Start with a cheap fish that is hearty. If you find saltwater fish that will school in an aquarium, you'll be breaking ground.
  
  ATO - May wait to purchase this at a later date. Again once I prove I cannot make a mess of the system then Ill invest. Until then I can top off daily.
  
  I have 2 systems, each has 2 tanks and a sump/refugium, and I have been doing top off manually for 12 years. It's like driving a stick shift car, it keeps me in better touch with what is going on im my aquariums.
  

Anything I missed that is a must have? Anything I put on here that I don't necessarily have to have?

I have one that I consider a must have. I would never build a new system with out some kind of 'containment system under my sump. My old system had a flexible PVC shower pan in the stand. My current system (see my build thread in my sig) has a sheet PVC 'tray' that fits just inside the stand. If the sump leaks or overflows, water doesn't get on the floor... or even to the wood stand! And even small spills, water spray and some salt creep gets contained in the PVC tray rather than on a nice wood stand. The new PVC tray is only 4 months old and has already saved me from one remote storage skimmer overflow mess. So already woth the $50 investment!

One last question right now is about salt creep. What are the best practices to reduce or eliminate salt creep? It seems everyone's tanks pictures never have any creep...my first tank was uncontrollable.

Where are you having salt creep issues? I think everybody just has to work at keeping some salt creep cleaned up. I don't have much of an issue, but a monthly wipe down of my plumbing over the sump (my only place I have a salt creep issue) is easy to deal with.

Sketches on tank layout and piping will be started soon I hope.
I very much appreciate your time reading this and any feedback you can provide.

I hope my feedback helps some? And I'll subscribe to your thread in case you have follow up questions. Or feel free to send me a PM.

 

[Civicman86]

Thanks all for the feedback so far it has been very helpful and I plan to look into some of the items you all have recommended. As I was reading the responses I had a few follow up questions...

In regards to return pumps I was looking at pumps in the range of 650-750 GPH , does that sound sufficient for tank turnover?

In regards to lighting, I made a mistake. I was originally look at the Hydras. I had done some more research and found the Photon 24 V2 - Was looking at having two of these, one on each side of the tank. Do you all feel these give a better or equal shimmer to the Kessils? Money seems to be pretty close between a Kessil setup with controller vs. 2 of the Photons (photons have a controller integrated I beleive?). I do really like the look of the Kessils as compared to the Photons. Will two of the Kessils cover the 4' tank at ~20" deep?

I'm on the fence of a refugiumin the sump. To be honeset I had made my mind up on just doing a water only with LR in the sump. If you think a refugium will help I am all ears.

I will plan for a RO/DI system. In reality it's a small purchase for better quality of life for my 'tenants'.

SSB = Shallow sand bed. I'm going to continue to read but I'm not sure if I need to have or do anything specifically different if I want a bed that is <2". Was looking at doing a coarse type substrate instead of fine sand.

CUC - Is it normal to still have, say Nas. Snails, if you have a shallow bed? Is a normal sized CUC needed for shallow compared to deep?

Fish - I may just start with a firefish (will have a lid) or False Perc. I also really like the blue/green chromis (having 3 of them), but heard they are aggressive and may grow too large for my 75g? Thoughts?

@xanthurum: Yes I did forget to mention this. I'm planning to use my old 29g tank as a QT tank. I still have a lot to learn about medicating. It's something I didn't do in the past.

Thanks again for the comments, keep them coming!

 

[Hal]

In a 75 I'd venture that the chromis will kill each other off until there is only one. This is pretty typical for chromis, and I've only heard of it being avoided with very large tanks (300g or larger). Had it happen in my 150g.

I'd suggest you make a wish list of all the fish you want to put into your tank. Then order them from least aggressive to most, and add them to your tank in that order. This will minimize deaths.

Also, I highly recommend an isolation tank, aka critter keeper plastic reptile cage. Drill holes in it to allow waterflow, and then suspend it in your tank with the new fish in it (after quarantine). Leave it like this for 3-4 days, and you'll find the aggression at the new fish will be minimal to none. It greatly reduces stress for the new fish.

 

[rjjr1963]

I would suggest investing in some Hannah checkers. ULP phosphorus, alkalinity and calcium.

 

[Ron Reefman]

In regards to return pumps I was looking at pumps in the range of 650-750 GPH , does that sound sufficient for tank turnover?

750gph would be 10 turns which is OK, but you need to take head pressure into account. I'd probably go 1000gph if your not going for a pump with variable speeds.

In regards to lighting, I made a mistake. I was originally look at the Hydras. I had done some more research and found the Photon 24 V2 - Was looking at having two of these, one on each side of the tank. Do you all feel these give a better or equal shimmer to the Kessils? Money seems to be pretty close between a Kessil setup with controller vs. 2 of the Photons (photons have a controller integrated I beleive?). I do really like the look of the Kessils as compared to the Photons. Will two of the Kessils cover the 4' tank at ~20" deep?

IMHO Kessils have by far the best shimmer and the worst coverage and lower PAR than other fixtures in the same price range. But that's just my opinion, Kessil owners will surely disagree.

I'm on the fence of a refugiumin the sump. To be honeset I had made my mind up on just doing a water only with LR in the sump. If you think a refugium will help I am all ears.

A fuge isn't necessary, it's just more 'natural' than GFO or phosban in a reactor.

I will plan for a RO/DI system. In reality it's a small purchase for better quality of life for my 'tenants'.

SSB = Shallow sand bed. I'm going to continue to read but I'm not sure if I need to have or do anything specifically different if I want a bed that is <2". Was looking at doing a coarse type substrate instead of fine sand.

My sand bed is 2" to 3" and semi fine sand. The more coarse it is, the harder it is on sand dwelling critters and fish like the wrasse that likes to sleep in the sand.

CUC - Is it normal to still have, say Nas. Snails, if you have a shallow bed? Is a normal sized CUC needed for shallow compared to deep?

Fish - I may just start with a firefish (will have a lid) or False Perc. I also really like the blue/green chromis (having 3 of them), but heard they are aggressive and may grow too large for my 75g? Thoughts?

They don't get very big. But they are sort of aggressive toward each other. I have 5 yellow chromis in my 125g. I started with 7 and in 2 months 2 died, but it's been over 3 years now and the rest seem to get along OK. They only 'kind of' school when they get scared.

@xanthurum: Yes I did forget to mention this. I'm planning to use my old 29g tank as a QT tank. I still have a lot to learn about medicating. It's something I didn't do in the past.

Thanks again for the comments, keep them coming!

Good luck.

 

[Civicman86]

Photon 48 v2 are on sale right now. That may push me over the edge &#55357;&#56833;

 

[Ron Reefman]

I use the V2 50" over my 60" tank and it's mostly sps & some lps. It's been 4 months and I'm quite happy with them. I had EverGrow IT2080 fixtures for 4 years (and still in use over a different tank. EG made the old Photon and the V2 and they have been as good in the long run as I could have hoped for from a fixture that cost 2 or 3 times as much.