Landlords Log - Breeding Gold Striped Maroon Clowns
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blange3
Brewer and Reefer
I took your advice Kurt and I'm learning a lot! I'm on day 10 with three left. Twwo have head stripes and all 3 have the wiggle swim motion.
Thanks Bill. You'll have a blast. Just be ready for unexpected things and take them lightly. Once you get the knack for it, you'll be hooked.
Kurt
landlord
New member
That is fantastic news. 3 is much better than 0 and whether you believe it or not are learning to be better the next time around.
Kurt
landlord
New member
No real updates. The large nest is darkening up nicely. Mom and Dad are doing a fine job of tending the nest. I am picking up some flowerpots at Walmart so I can try and remove the pot and swap it out on hatch night. That'll be a new one for me so we'll see how it goes.
Have a Great Holiday!
Kurt
Have a Great Holiday!
Kurt
landlord
New member
Well I pulled the flowerpot into the larval tank last night. Set a airline on a gentle stream of bubbles which is slowly bouncing the eggs around. No luck this morning. It was the 6th night like last time so maybe the early hatch was a fluke or I did something wrong. I will keep the flowerpot in for another night to see if anything hatches but with nothing last night I am concerned that removing the pot from the broodstock tank may prevent a proper hatching (lack of parental nuturing, I dunno).
We'll see what, if anything happens tonight.
Take Care and Thanks for Reading
Kurt
We'll see what, if anything happens tonight.
Take Care and Thanks for Reading
Kurt
landlord
New member
Well, I did just about everything in my power to destroy this nest and still came out ahead. Let me back up a few days to recap the disaster that I unfolded upon myself....
:lol:
So on Christmas night I posted that I pulled the flowerpot into a larval tank to try and hatch them out away from the broodstock tank. I set an airline up through the bottom hole on the flowerpot so that I could lay down a stream of bubbles to "aerate" the eggs. If you can imagine that the egg mass was about 3 inches in diameter on the inside of the pot. The airline was on a slow bubble rate. About 5 bubbles a second. It was a single stream that basically cut through the center of the egg mass. I fully believed that this was enough air to keep the eggs happy.
Wrong....
As I stated earlier, I got nothing on Xmas night (6th day after laying). The next day proved to be fruitless as well (7th day after laying). So Sunday morning I simply said "screw it". I figured after 7 days and 2 days away from the parents this batch was toast, so I put the flowerpot back into the broodstock tank eggs and all. Well Mom proceeded to go back into the pot and began waving her pectoral fins over the eggs. A funny thing happened, only the eggs that were in the direct path of the bubble stream survived. So basically a 1/2 inch wide strip of a 3 inch diameter circle of eggs made it. She blew the dead ones right off the pot.
So at this point I'm like "Ok, now what". I checked back every so ofter on Sunday during the day to see if the rest of the eggs would be blown off, or eaten by the parents. Remember that we are on the eighth day after laying, with two days of carnage by me!
So I figured I'd give it another shot after lights out to see if any of the remaining eggs were in good enough shape to hatch out. Lights went out at 8:30 PM, so I turned off all the pumps to that tank and began waiting. After 2 hours nothing had happened and I was getting tired, so I went to bed. I told my wife to set an alarm for midnight in case by some stroke of luck something would happen.
Sure enough
There were fry swimming all over the tank. I was able to collect about 30 of them at midnight.
30 more at 2:00 AM
another 20 more at 4:00 AM
So, now it's time to go to work and I am a mess, but I believe I was able to get about 75 - 80 fry. Sooooo hard to tell since they are so darn tiny but I am excited nonetheless.
Looking forward to getting home to see how many survived the night!
Have a Great Week!
Kurt
:lol:
So on Christmas night I posted that I pulled the flowerpot into a larval tank to try and hatch them out away from the broodstock tank. I set an airline up through the bottom hole on the flowerpot so that I could lay down a stream of bubbles to "aerate" the eggs. If you can imagine that the egg mass was about 3 inches in diameter on the inside of the pot. The airline was on a slow bubble rate. About 5 bubbles a second. It was a single stream that basically cut through the center of the egg mass. I fully believed that this was enough air to keep the eggs happy.
Wrong....
As I stated earlier, I got nothing on Xmas night (6th day after laying). The next day proved to be fruitless as well (7th day after laying). So Sunday morning I simply said "screw it". I figured after 7 days and 2 days away from the parents this batch was toast, so I put the flowerpot back into the broodstock tank eggs and all. Well Mom proceeded to go back into the pot and began waving her pectoral fins over the eggs. A funny thing happened, only the eggs that were in the direct path of the bubble stream survived. So basically a 1/2 inch wide strip of a 3 inch diameter circle of eggs made it. She blew the dead ones right off the pot.
So at this point I'm like "Ok, now what". I checked back every so ofter on Sunday during the day to see if the rest of the eggs would be blown off, or eaten by the parents. Remember that we are on the eighth day after laying, with two days of carnage by me!
So I figured I'd give it another shot after lights out to see if any of the remaining eggs were in good enough shape to hatch out. Lights went out at 8:30 PM, so I turned off all the pumps to that tank and began waiting. After 2 hours nothing had happened and I was getting tired, so I went to bed. I told my wife to set an alarm for midnight in case by some stroke of luck something would happen.
Sure enoughThere were fry swimming all over the tank. I was able to collect about 30 of them at midnight.
30 more at 2:00 AM
another 20 more at 4:00 AM
So, now it's time to go to work and I am a mess, but I believe I was able to get about 75 - 80 fry. Sooooo hard to tell since they are so darn tiny but I am excited nonetheless.
Looking forward to getting home to see how many survived the night!
Have a Great Week!
Kurt
landlord
New member
Now that is dedication! You still against setting up a trap to automate the collection process?
Congrats on the hatch - we look forward to an update when you get home. (and maybe after you rest up a bit)
--Ed
Thanks for the kind words Ed. I am sooooooo ready to create a larval snagger just not sure how to design one yet. Need to find some small micron mesh or something similar. Frankly, I simply need some ideas since the snagger will need to fit on the short side of a ten gallon tank, which has the drain line about 3 inches from the right side so I do not have much room to work with. This late night larval collection is for the birds. What you call dedication my wife calls O.C.D. :lol:
Kurt
landlord
New member
The Hatch - Part II or is it III.....
You all may have read above my trials and tribulations with hatching out this large nest of GSM's. Well there is still more. The fry that I gathered throughout Sunday night/Monday morning weren't the end. There were still about 75 more eggs, which I took for dead, left on the flowerpot. I figured I'd give them another night, so last night I turned off the pumps at 8:00 PM and the lights shut down at 8:20 and the waiting began.
So this time I figured that I would keep the room as dark and undisturbed as possible. I am starting to think that my checking for the hatch at 15 minute intervals using an LED flashlight could have disrupted the process a bit so I kept away from the fishroom. 6 episodes of Family Guy later (11:00 PM) I went in to see that EVERY remaining egg had hatched.
So in about 20 minutes I was able to siphon out another 75 or so fry
These guys were not as mobile as the first round. Weren't as active, I guess. I am simply amazed how resilient these eggs were. I put this nest through the ringer for sure, and to have more on hatch nine days after laying was quite the surprise. So I transfered them into the larval tank with the rest of the brood and went to bed.
Some observations - On the first hatch night the fry that I transferred were all simming very well up in the water column and feeding normally but last night many of them were simply resting on the bottom of the tank. I say resting because when I tapped the side of the tank they would jerk around and start swimming about only to settle back to the bottom of the tank. This has me a little nervous that I may come home to a die off. In retrospect I probably shouldn't have added the remaining fry from last night into the tank. The density of rotifers was lower than I liked before I added 75 more fry.... So I strained out some more rots from the rotifer buckets to supplement those already present and added some Rotifer Diet as usual. With rotifers I prefer to culture them within the larval tank so that there is a constant supply of on hand food, but whenever I get over 100 fry this method simply doesn't work. This happened with my Tomato clowns on occasion. Once the density would get low, it would never recover. bring on the die off. Supplementation just never seems to sustain density of food or the fry for that matter.
For future hatches regardless of species I am going to stick with 50-75 fry tops. I always have the best luck with a group of this size. Of course, "Easier said than done". There is something about sitting in the dark gathering babies. It is almost like I get the "No man left behind." attitude and feel as if I have to gather them all. Not sure if this happens to other breeders out there but it definitely happens to me.
Thanks for reading, again questions and comments are always welcomed. Anyone with some good ideas on a compact larval snagger feel free to throw out some ideas...
Kurt
You all may have read above my trials and tribulations with hatching out this large nest of GSM's. Well there is still more. The fry that I gathered throughout Sunday night/Monday morning weren't the end. There were still about 75 more eggs, which I took for dead, left on the flowerpot. I figured I'd give them another night, so last night I turned off the pumps at 8:00 PM and the lights shut down at 8:20 and the waiting began.
So this time I figured that I would keep the room as dark and undisturbed as possible. I am starting to think that my checking for the hatch at 15 minute intervals using an LED flashlight could have disrupted the process a bit so I kept away from the fishroom. 6 episodes of Family Guy later (11:00 PM) I went in to see that EVERY remaining egg had hatched.
So in about 20 minutes I was able to siphon out another 75 or so fry
These guys were not as mobile as the first round. Weren't as active, I guess. I am simply amazed how resilient these eggs were. I put this nest through the ringer for sure, and to have more on hatch nine days after laying was quite the surprise. So I transfered them into the larval tank with the rest of the brood and went to bed.
Some observations - On the first hatch night the fry that I transferred were all simming very well up in the water column and feeding normally but last night many of them were simply resting on the bottom of the tank. I say resting because when I tapped the side of the tank they would jerk around and start swimming about only to settle back to the bottom of the tank. This has me a little nervous that I may come home to a die off. In retrospect I probably shouldn't have added the remaining fry from last night into the tank. The density of rotifers was lower than I liked before I added 75 more fry.... So I strained out some more rots from the rotifer buckets to supplement those already present and added some Rotifer Diet as usual. With rotifers I prefer to culture them within the larval tank so that there is a constant supply of on hand food, but whenever I get over 100 fry this method simply doesn't work. This happened with my Tomato clowns on occasion. Once the density would get low, it would never recover. bring on the die off. Supplementation just never seems to sustain density of food or the fry for that matter.
For future hatches regardless of species I am going to stick with 50-75 fry tops. I always have the best luck with a group of this size. Of course, "Easier said than done". There is something about sitting in the dark gathering babies. It is almost like I get the "No man left behind." attitude and feel as if I have to gather them all. Not sure if this happens to other breeders out there
but it definitely happens to me.Thanks for reading, again questions and comments are always welcomed. Anyone with some good ideas on a compact larval snagger feel free to throw out some ideas...
Kurt
landlord
New member
Well I guess the fry are officially on Day 2 and I am pleased to report that I have no visible losses. A visible loss to me is when I can see a swollen pinkinsh carcass at the bottom of the tank. They kind of stand out like sore thumbs, and w00t! there are none!
I am absolutely elated with the number of fish I was able to pull out of this hatch. I could guess that there are around 150 fish. I can only imagine how many there would have been had I captured the whole lot of them. Probably close to 600, which would have decimated my rotifers and more than likely doomed the lot of them. These guys are still pretty tiny but at least the population, or density, of rotifers is unchanged. This, of course, is a great thing. I do not know if my eyes are simply getting worse but these fry seem much smaller than the Perculas and also much smaller than I remember my Tomatos being. Just miniscule little guys. When I tried snapping some photos the fry were indistinguishable from the rotifers. On the positive side they are staying midway up in the tank feasting away. I have been leaving them under 24 hours of light from a 55 watt actinic PC lamp suspended about 4 inches off the top of the tank. The tank glows with a cool blueness and for some reason it keeps the fry from resting on the bottom and they all seem to feed much better. Very pleased with them indeed.
Kurt
I am absolutely elated with the number of fish I was able to pull out of this hatch. I could guess that there are around 150 fish. I can only imagine how many there would have been had I captured the whole lot of them. Probably close to 600, which would have decimated my rotifers and more than likely doomed the lot of them. These guys are still pretty tiny but at least the population, or density, of rotifers is unchanged. This, of course, is a great thing. I do not know if my eyes are simply getting worse but these fry seem much smaller than the Perculas and also much smaller than I remember my Tomatos being. Just miniscule little guys. When I tried snapping some photos the fry were indistinguishable from the rotifers. On the positive side they are staying midway up in the tank feasting away. I have been leaving them under 24 hours of light from a 55 watt actinic PC lamp suspended about 4 inches off the top of the tank. The tank glows with a cool blueness and for some reason it keeps the fry from resting on the bottom and they all seem to feed much better. Very pleased with them indeed.
KurtHello Landlord ,
I too am in the learning process of raising GSM. I have the broodstock in my MT reef display 90g and they where laying there eggs on the glass wall. I was lucky enough to be able to get them to lay on a piece of removable glass that i placed over there location without disrupting there cycle at all. I then like you mistakenly removed the glass on the 7th night and positioned a open airline to gently blow over the eggs at low bubble point. I had very minimal hatch-out of 20 from a 400+ cluster, although disappointing i am proud to say i have 1 left from my first attempt approaching being 3 months old. On my second attempt at hatching the eggs into my larval tank I put a air stone on the line and blasted the eggs with micro bubbles and headed to sleep. Waking up the next morning I didn't have my hopes set high but low and behold I had a complete hatch-out
I haven't had much trouble in the rotifier stage it is the later stages that have given me trouble. My next big hurdle has been keeping them well fed I had over 100 make it through metamorphosis but am having difficulty keeping them well fed I am trying to do the newly hatched baby brine shrimp but not sure if it is giving them enough nutrition or if it is casing internal problem with the occasional eggs shell whether it be a free floating one or one still attached to the brine shrimp. i recently have started to grind up flake food in attempts to start them on this diet earlier. I was wondering, maybe i have missed it but what type of feeding do you do and what type of product do you use? this is a picture of 3 week olds
and this is a picture of my oldest at 2 months
need to get a new picture he/she is almost 1/2" mark
I too am in the learning process of raising GSM. I have the broodstock in my MT reef display 90g and they where laying there eggs on the glass wall. I was lucky enough to be able to get them to lay on a piece of removable glass that i placed over there location without disrupting there cycle at all. I then like you mistakenly removed the glass on the 7th night and positioned a open airline to gently blow over the eggs at low bubble point. I had very minimal hatch-out of 20 from a 400+ cluster, although disappointing i am proud to say i have 1 left from my first attempt approaching being 3 months old. On my second attempt at hatching the eggs into my larval tank I put a air stone on the line and blasted the eggs with micro bubbles and headed to sleep. Waking up the next morning I didn't have my hopes set high but low and behold I had a complete hatch-out
I haven't had much trouble in the rotifier stage it is the later stages that have given me trouble. My next big hurdle has been keeping them well fed I had over 100 make it through metamorphosis but am having difficulty keeping them well fed I am trying to do the newly hatched baby brine shrimp but not sure if it is giving them enough nutrition or if it is casing internal problem with the occasional eggs shell whether it be a free floating one or one still attached to the brine shrimp. i recently have started to grind up flake food in attempts to start them on this diet earlier. I was wondering, maybe i have missed it but what type of feeding do you do and what type of product do you use? this is a picture of 3 week olds
and this is a picture of my oldest at 2 months
need to get a new picture he/she is almost 1/2" mark
landlord
New member
Wow,
You are doing fantastic if you ask me. I was going to go right from rotifers to a food called Otohime. It comes in various sizes from the smallest to larger than I would ever feed. I have been having great luck during the inital week of there lives but we'll see what happens when the go through meta and require different sustenance.
One piece of advice I can give you is to post questions on these boards. Many people here have been successful and are more than willing to share their ideas.
Great Job
Kurt
You are doing fantastic if you ask me. I was going to go right from rotifers to a food called Otohime. It comes in various sizes from the smallest to larger than I would ever feed. I have been having great luck during the inital week of there lives but we'll see what happens when the go through meta and require different sustenance.
One piece of advice I can give you is to post questions on these boards. Many people here have been successful and are more than willing to share their ideas.
Great Job
Kurt
thanks Kurt, I have heard good things about the Otohime food I was just gonna but the larger size and grate it to what size i need i have a set of screens of various size that seem to be doing the job for me can grate it to dust if i need to. Getting ready for my next hatch out should be this sunday hoping for a big one.
Steve
Steve
flying_dutchman
New member
Very nice thank you for sharing.
I properbly picking up a pair of GSM clowns tomorrow, so I'm tagging along.
I properbly picking up a pair of GSM clowns tomorrow, so I'm tagging along.
agsansoo
Premium Member
Did you look at my larvae snagger in this thread ?
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1764572
landlord
New member
That's where a saw it. I guess the part I am confused about, or maybe not is what prevents them from swimming back out of the slot. I'm guessing its the suction of the rio inside the coffee filter but I am having trouble grasping how much flow you are using in order to: 1. balance keeping the fry in the collection container vs 2. Having them stuck to the side of the coffee filter.
I do like the idea of not having in suction or U tubes to mess with, It is quite large though. I would definitely need to modify it for size. It would have to fit inside of a 10 gallon
Thanks
landlord
New member
Day 7 - Looks like I lost about 40 - 50% of the fry over the New Years break. I am guessing that my water quality was probably partly to blame, but most likely it was due to my poor handling of the eggs. Whatever the case I now have a much more manageable amount of fish to rear. Plenty of food is available and I hope to see more growth out of these guys over this next week. The babies really look no different than they did when they were hatched. Still very small, not as small, but small. No changes in body shape have been noticed. Lots of silver bellies though so I am pleased with how it is going.
Take Care
Kurt
Take Care
Kurt
agsansoo
Premium Member
That's where a saw it. I guess the part I am confused about, or maybe not is what prevents them from swimming back out of the slot. I'm guessing its the suction of the rio inside the coffee filter but I am having trouble grasping how much flow you are using in order to: 1. balance keeping the fry in the collection container vs 2. Having them stuck to the side of the coffee filter.
The rio 50 (69gph) is a light flow. Not enough to damage the little larvae. Once in the snagger they will not leave the light.
Just had a nice hatch-out last night . Tank full of babies 300+ easy to hard to count when there is that many but they all hatched no egg cases left. i really need to get a rotifier seive straining them through coffee filters just stinks. Just need to get through the next 3 days and hope i don't lose too many.
landlord
New member
I played the coffee filter game for awhile, it blows. Once I got my sieve it was heavenly.
KurtSimilar threads
