Large Tank Resouce Questions

[rreddick]

I know, but transfered out here from England, we thought we would get to go back to our house in SoCal, but no, have me running operations in both Europe and North America and Boston locaiton splits the dif, but at least we have the ocean, women, not the same look, and then there is the snow. My biggest fear after I setup my 180 was power outages, now have a 15kW natural gas gen tied into the main breaker box. LOL, and I used to worry about earth quakes
Ron

 

[rreddick]

Note to all who have helped, thanks.
Just sent off to James to get a quote on the 10 x 4 x 3 as suggested.

Also a new question, for the 3 foot depth, I have 6 - 400W 10K MH pendants from one of our plants that we shut down. Will that wattage work for that depth?

Ron

 

[viggen]

A friend of mine does aquarium installation & I am sure he would be willing to give you info as well, he works with a few aquarium manufacturers. We rescently went to Philly to install a 10x5x3 shark tank & even though I had nothing to do with the $$$ side of things I beleive under $20K is what it cost for the tank, stand, installation, filters, chiller, lights etc. However it was not setup for reef & also did not use a big expensive skimmer.

If you are worried that a 10x4x3 tank isn't enough you could always do 2 of them

 

[Mr.Biggs]

If you are really serious about your original tank size I think you can get a lot closer then some have stated.

Do to cost the main thing is are you going to DIY or buy equipment retail.

The man you really need to talk to has "MOVED ON" (been band) from this sight.

22,000 gal tank

The pic's are missing but it still has some good info in it.

the tank is concrete and has 2 10' panels instead of the one 20' cost of 2600 each instead of 30K (See last page before thread was shut down)

 

[rreddick]

Biggs,
Thanks for the info, will check out the trhead. and Viggen, I am not opposed to DIY, have done a fair bit of my own work here on the house, and build furniture to relax. Steel work is not a problem, can mig and tig weld. Also currently have built my own Calc reactor and Phos reactors. My first attempt at acrylic work was for my sump, the joints are a bit rough but I have gotten better with it. Some alot I think I can handle. And the used MH's I have will help in already reducing some of the costs.

I have also been checking out some of the other big build threads to get ideas on ventalation, lighting hoods and different ways people have automated and plumped the work rooms. There is some fantastic work out there by alot of people to get insperation from and I think this is doable. Just need to get a rough handle on the costs. I like the idea of maybe a concrete tank with the glass panels. Need to investigate how he bedded them and what the frame is constructed of. Do not want to have any metal come into contact with SW, just a corrision failure wating to happen.

So thanks everyone for the help, getting some good ideas, and some helpful advice that the dream tank may be possible. Have already gotten the better half to accept the running costs that this will incure on a monthly basis, now to get the realistic dollars for the actual build.

Ron

 

[kwl1763]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8896585#post8896585 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bebo77
lol not all of the tank.. or maybe JUST the tank... a 10x2x2 tank is around $8000 alone

That's ludicrous. I have a 450G 10x3x2 and it was $3k shipped and it's starfire.

I think you could pull off the original for $30k but I wouldn't make it more then 30" high so down to around 1200G

You have to DIY stuff though.

1 pane Glass or acrylic alone would probably cost ~$5k
You can DIY a couple big skimmers for probably ~$2-3k
Rock probably ~$3k
Lighting ~$5k
Circulation probably roughly 5k
plumbing, sump, etc another couple grand

so add 50% for all the other stuff like ventilation, labor, shipping, etc. and I think $30k is reasonable assuming your willing to do most of the stuff yourself. If you want it done for you (Buying commercially made skimmers, having someone plumb, etc) it will be at least 50k.

My 450 cost me about 12.5k total.
Tank 3k
Skimmer 1k
pumps/circulation 2k
sumps, plumbing, etc 1k
rock 1k
lights 1.5k
reactor/RODI/Other Misc 1k

Then add a 2 k for livestock and salt and test kits, etc.

 

[rreddick]

Keith,
Thanks for the insight. The rough numbers help. I liked the tought of the additional depth to realy fill that wall. I will have to finiish getting some glass and acrylic pricing to see what reality is, you know, in for a penny ....

I already have some of the stuff that I can move over to the new tank or is not in use at this time

300 lbs LR - In current 180 reef
300 lbs Dry Base rock in tubs
100GPD RO/DI unit
400 Watt MH pendants (6)
Sequence 6000 GPH Pump
More PVC plumbing parts then I can count
Calc and Phos reactors
I currently have both an EV400 and PM Bullet skimmer, but both would be two small so thinking either DIY or BK, Deltec

As this is a new addition to the house, we already have figured into the build itself a seperate airhandler for the tank area for dehumidfing and ventalation. The foundation work is included as is adding a new 200 AMP panel to the fish room.

Main considerations I am looking to do during the construction is chilling. On the cape we are on a big sand pile, thinking of burying a 500G plastic water tank ($800 localy) in the yard and running a closed loop heat exchange to inside, i.e large coil of 1" flex PVC inside the buried tank filled with fresh water. Still trying to work out if this would provide enough cooling. I run a 1/2 HP unit on my 180 to keep it at 78, and that is with only running 3 - 250W MH, cannot imagine the heat generation with 6 to 8 400W MH running. Looking at some of the peoples hood designs to see the best way to make a good light hood to remove as much heat as possible.

Ah, so much to research before you commit, and then even more work to do. I love this hobby as it makes you learn all the time.

Thanks
Ron

 

[Biggie]

Whooo hooo!!!!

 

[Bebo77]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8902749#post8902749 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kwl1763
That's ludicrous. I have a 450G 10x3x2 and it was $3k shipped and it's starfire.



1 pane Glass or acrylic alone would probably cost ~$5k

so you had a 10' L tank built for less then the price of a pane of glass? wow how did you manage that?

 

[purebullet417]

if you dont mind having a seem in the middle you could do 2 10 foot pains for much much cheeper alot of public aquariums do this somtiems they leave them exposed somtimes they cover it like to make it look like 2 seperate viewing pannles

 

[kwl1763]

No a 20ft pane would cost 5k It's the biggest they make.

And yes 2 10fters would be significantly less then one 20fter.

As to the chiller it might work. The problrm is in the summer when you really need the cooling the ground is not that cool especially with the sand base you have!

Thee has been a lot of discussion about doing this though so look around. I'll try to scrounge up some threads later.

 

[rreddick]

Hi All,
Good point about the sand, wish I was thinking about this last summer, could have taken some ground temp readings. The one good thing about the cape is it does not get blistering hot out here. So maybe still need the chiller for the summer, still would save on using it year round.

Thought about two panes, that would still look good. The concept I having the wall of water is what we are after. I can get marine grade stainless to weld the front face frame. If I go with the concrete sides and back, then this would bring the costs back in line.

I have a meeting in Boston at the Aquarium there with the director. he also supervised the design and the build of the new addition they did. He seemed very open to having me come up and discuss the issues and what they did. Hope to get some good info from the trip up.

Again, you all have been great. 2 years ago when I got in to SW from fresh and Ponds I never thought I would be doing something like this. But then again, thats what I said when we started the pond, I was thinking little, mabye 10 x 15, well then my buddy who is a landscaper lent me his bob cat, next thing I know we have a 24 x 51 pond thats 6 feet at the deepest. love it though

Ron

 

[nyvp]

my 560g 120x36x30 three side low iron was 3k

 

[rreddick]

NYVP Thanks for that,
So this looks very possible as long as I do not break the bank with one solid 20 foot span.

Cool
Ron

 

[white trash]

i think that it is completely possible, and it all just depends on how much DIY you are ready to take on.... For instance i made a chiller for a 72 gallon for $12, and I am building a nano tank that i have $10 invested in so far..... i'd just say screw it, build the tank and do.... nobody says it has to be done now.... and if you can come up with 30K right now to do it, what about starting it, and coming up with the rest if you go over budget.....

 

[rreddick]

Like your thinking - Getting some great input from everyone. I think the 30K is a good start the more I learn. And I do not mind the DIY.

Need to make some final plans on the tank in the next two weeks as the architect needs to complete the engineering. And this all depends now on size and materials. But I am leaning towards a double panels, going with the original size, and using glass front and concrete sides and back wall.

Will keep everyone posted as I move along. I am sure to have a million more questions. And whooo whoo my tinkers came in today. Bad news is did not expect him for a few months down the road. Need to make a home for him ASAP.

Ron

 

[tacocat]

$30K would cover your electrical bill for about a year.

 

[Craig Lambert]

rreddick,

Here is an excellent thread that you might want to read. This system while smaller than your considering is extremely well done. I have been doing some research on what it would cost to do an inwall in the 270-350G range. You really have to consider your operational costs in addition to all the required equipment...(and backup equipment). If it were me, I would do it smaller with high quality equipment.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=574147&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

 

[uztaryn]

I currently just finished setting up my 500g display with a total water volume of ~1200g. I have just over 17k invested now and am just now starting to stock the system.

In my display just the tank and stand I have roughly $5600. So if that gives you an idea I spent about 12k on the stuff that goes along with it.

You are going to need a massive RO system to fill that big of a tank.

I really would like to say think about cleaning this thing. You are going to litterly have to get inside the tank if it is much deeper than 30-36 inches.

I have to use a ladder just to clean mine and it is only 30" tall.

What are you thinking about for flow in a tank that big? You are going to need a huge wavemaker for a tank of this size.

I think that 30k could get you a good ways done with a project of this size but I think you will definately need more to get water in it.

I just got back from Nassau and the aquarium Atlantis there had a large tank like what you are talking about. They put a column in between the 10' panes of glass to separate the viewing areas.

 

[shutiny]

large tank

large tank

I would like to share my personal experiences, and may be you'll find some helpfulness through my mistakes.

I went with starphire /optic white glass for my three side viewing tank, and an acrylic tank would not have been practical for me. Due to the large viewing surface, acrylic would be too difficult to maintain scratch free. Using starphire is one of the best decisions I made for the construction of my latest tank.

My current tank is 6 foot deep, therefore, the placement of coral/aquascaping is rather difficult. And, when a coral fell, I either had to suited up/jump in or using a 6 foot long graper. It is a pain( I wished that I have listen to you David)! Another thing, forget about target feeding any coral that needed some TLC. Also,trying to remove hair algae with your hand is not fun when you are under 6 foot of water. Oh, never mind about treating AEFW or red bugs, you might as well go ahead and do a corporate take over of Seachem and Sailfer. You are going to need a lot of chemicals!

Although I have 1K metal halides, and natural sun light, but the sps growth rate is rather slow. With all that money spent on the tank, one would like to see some decent growth products. After more than a year, I am sick of looking at those 5 inch sticks!

Heating /cooling is a challenge, although GEO thermal tank helps.

The sump should be large enough for pumps /returns. May be 1/5 of the tank volume or larger may be needed for the large equipment such as pumps for close loop, returns, skimmer, reactors........... I have 960g sump and I wished it was bigger.

You would need a large room just to store your salts! How are you going to do water change? Merger/partnership with city water wouldn't work in my case, but Dialysea works well( when the machine is working properly).

Man power is a big issue and I hope you have a big family that could help you with the tank maintenance. It takes a full time person, one part time engineer, and a part time helper just to keep things running and looking nice.

The noral 200 amp home electrical connection is not going to cut it; you'll need a 400 amp power. A 15,000w generator is a life line of a large tank. Solar power helps if you ar not in cold and aways cloudy Monterey. And, if you live near ocean, forget it. The solar connections rusts easily.

It is a lot of money to build and maintain a 5000g tank. What would you rather have: three Porschea 911 or a big reef? My friend Joe built a beautiful 150g tank and had money left over to buy a new 911.

By the way, for the price of one year maintenance cost, one could stay at the Four Seasons in Bali or Kona for 6 months and dive every day.
HTH