Larval Stenopus hispidus
- Thread starter Luis A M
- Start date
stenopus literature update
stenopus literature update
Nice shots, Luis
And thank you for the papers from the other thread:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=826515
Googling around the web I came upon an interesting link which I would like to share with you:
http://216.168.47.67/cis-fishnet/JAAS/D044.htm
On the flipside I found also two articles in my mold gathering literature. Ring the bell if you would like the pdfs.
Matt
stenopus literature update
Nice shots, Luis
And thank you for the papers from the other thread:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=826515
Googling around the web I came upon an interesting link which I would like to share with you:
http://216.168.47.67/cis-fishnet/JAAS/D044.htm
On the flipside I found also two articles in my mold gathering literature. Ring the bell if you would like the pdfs.
Matt
Luis A M
Premium Member
Thanks Matt,
This is indeed an interesting paper,though with some pitfalls.They didnÃ"šÃ‚´t monitor the larval development stages and somehow decided that at 35 days the larvae should be ready for their settlement experiments.Rearing/water conditions seem also poor.
This paper sounds familiar but from sometime in my pre-Internet life
.Seems it was written ca.1980?.
PM the titles of those papers,I might have them.
This is indeed an interesting paper,though with some pitfalls.They didnÃ"šÃ‚´t monitor the larval development stages and somehow decided that at 35 days the larvae should be ready for their settlement experiments.Rearing/water conditions seem also poor.
This paper sounds familiar but from sometime in my pre-Internet life
.Seems it was written ca.1980?.PM the titles of those papers,I might have them.
Luis A M
Premium Member
And whom is to blame for telling me about the adaptor in the first place?.<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7288452#post7288452 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by spawner
Wow Luis, get them an a microscope adaptor for the dig. camera and off he goesEnjoy zoea 5-6, not much changes until you get to around z9 or so.
As far as Stenopus larval stages,I never found any published description.So the only thing I can do is to look for significant morphological changes and give them stage numbers.Not very academic
ArenÃ"šÃ‚´t you aware of ANY larval description,even unofficial?.I know the FIT raised them
Nice you chime in (at last)
Luis A M
Premium Member
Most of the appendixes have two pieces;the external one is called exopodite and the internal endopodite.But for practical use it is better to use them just for the external and internal uropods.It is shorter<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7288092#post7288092 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FuEl
Nice, looking forward to more pictures.
Luis,
Your process of identifying significant morphological changes and giving them stage/instar numbers sounds pretty academic to me. That's the way all larval development descriptions are prepared. They sometimes rear individual larvae in individual containers (using plastic *****-boxes) and look every day for an exuvia. However, we know that would not work for species like S.his. which have such long larval development times. The usual pitfall and source of confusion is not missing an instar, but having a larva molt without going to a more advanced development stage.
If you can create line drawings of the larvae from your photos you will have all the makings of a white-paper journal article.
-steve
Your process of identifying significant morphological changes and giving them stage/instar numbers sounds pretty academic to me. That's the way all larval development descriptions are prepared. They sometimes rear individual larvae in individual containers (using plastic *****-boxes) and look every day for an exuvia. However, we know that would not work for species like S.his. which have such long larval development times. The usual pitfall and source of confusion is not missing an instar, but having a larva molt without going to a more advanced development stage.
If you can create line drawings of the larvae from your photos you will have all the makings of a white-paper journal article.
-steve
I wish you could use photo for line drawings but reviewer pretty much nuke that on spot, they get very picky about setation and such, and want to see all the detail, that only a camrea lucida can get. Stenopus isn't bad up to about zoea 6 or so then it gets messy with multiple instarts. There one paper on larvae of stenopus to zoea 5-6 and its a very poor paper. I would expect more papers to come out in the near future but not many people have the time and paitence to describe 10-12 larval stages.
Hmm, 10-12 larval stages. :eek2: If according to Luis estimation that each larval stage takes about 6 days and assuming there are no mark-time moults, larval duration could be as early as 60-72 days? Maybe someone should rear them using ocean zooplankton and see if it is really the case.
On the side track spawner, do you think smaller species of tropical Stenopus should have shorter larval duration compared to S. hispidus? Hope I'm not hijacking your thread Luis! :rolleye1:
On the side track spawner, do you think smaller species of tropical Stenopus should have shorter larval duration compared to S. hispidus? Hope I'm not hijacking your thread Luis! :rolleye1:
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Luis A M
Premium Member
Well no,a real "scientific"larval description involves dissection and microscopic examination of larval pieces.This needs skills and knowledge only specialist researchers have.
On the other hand the need of us hobbyists to determine the developmental stages of larval shrimp is just to evaluate their healthy growth.Larvae molt periodically and change into something different,a new "stage".It is like many small metamorphosis before the big final one.Now a distressed larva will keep molting but repeating the same stage till it dies.This is called marking time.
So it is OK if I can define stages where gross morphological changes show,which can be seen with a dissect.scope or the naked eye.These stages even if not "academic"will be of practical use for all new breeders.
ItÃ"šÃ‚´s like taking a train for a long trip;Knowing the name of all the stations,you know how far you are and if it goes in time.Or if the train is stopping
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7310602#post7310602 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Luis A M
Right,seems like smaller species are comparatively easier.(good for you Junkai
I donÃ"šÃ‚´t bet for GABA,eyestalk clipping,and things like that.TheyÃ"šÃ‚´re just research tools.
My S. cyanoscelis larvae are now slightly over 2 months. Estimated total larval length only 8-9 mm. No pleopod buds as yet from what I have observed. Might take longer than S. scutellatus since the former is a tropical species with large geographical distribution?
Maybe for Lysmata someone should try L. grabhami. Might be an alternative to L. amboinensis.
Luis A M
Premium Member
No more pictures in this series Most of the larvae died when molting to Z5 at 23 days.Three survived but died two days later.For some reason larvae usually die during molting.
Telson of Z5 is ellipsoid,with a concave posterior edge.Endops are longer,reaching the end of the two marginal spines of the telson.Will make pics next time
Most of the larvae died when molting to Z5 at 23 days.Three survived but died two days later.For some reason larvae usually die during molting.Telson of Z5 is ellipsoid,with a concave posterior edge.Endops are longer,reaching the end of the two marginal spines of the telson.Will make pics next time
Luis A M
Premium Member
bumping an old thread
bumping an old thread
cause I have some (very few )larvae now.
This is a 16 days larva,I think it is zoea 4.This specimen shows 4 pairs of pereiopods (legs).I could only see three up to now.
Pairs 1 &2 are biramous (two branched);pairs 3&4 uniramous (one branched).4th pair is less developed,both legs can be seen.
bumping an old thread
cause I have some (very few
)larvae now.This is a 16 days larva,I think it is zoea 4.This specimen shows 4 pairs of pereiopods (legs).I could only see three up to now.
Pairs 1 &2 are biramous (two branched);pairs 3&4 uniramous (one branched).4th pair is less developed,both legs can be seen.
