zygote2k... if the LED aesthetics are spot-on and people's reds are showing up fine then what is the point of this thread? The fact is, there has been enough complaining about 'washed-out' colors (beyond the blue range which seems to be OK in most people's opinions) that it warranted discussion. Your flame hawk, for example, is red-orange. We've established that there's plenty of that range in the whites. What we're trying to do is attempt to figure out what is 'washing-out' colors in some tanks. Too much of some colors? Too little of some colors? Both?
LED Color Aesthetics: The Emperor's got no clothes. Or does he?
- Thread starter scolley
- Start date
It's awesome to see some experimentation going on. Any chance of photos, John? Can you elaborate on your observations?
My regular tank has LEDs with dimmable drivers and from a visual standpoint I have it set to where I get a color rendition I like, also enjoy the pop (fluorescense of the corals) from the RBs.
Can't dim/adjust my CWs and RBs on my frag tank and I was looking to see what additional wavelengths would do, not that I was displeased with my normal frag tank lighting. Also had in mind I might want to add LEDs to my main tank if I ran across a color combo I liked better or added something missing. I had already tried the red LED in the frag tank by itself and decided imo it did not add anything I considered missing from an aesthetic standpoint, the cyan doesn't either (by itself or with any combination of color LEDs I have now).
Still haven't tried an UV LED, will be next on my list. Meanwhile, I will leave the Red and Cyan running to see how the corals respond.
I've actually thought about adding a fiji purple to see what it would do for the reds.
monkeydad
New member
I'm a total noob, and have very limited knowledge of lighting, but I have a question.
Has anyone tried using a combo of red/blue/green to create colors, similar to how monitors function? If not, why not?
It seems to me if a monitor with these three primary colors can create any color we can see, including white, this combination might work well in aquarium lighting.
Best regards to all,
E
Has anyone tried using a combo of red/blue/green to create colors, similar to how monitors function? If not, why not?
It seems to me if a monitor with these three primary colors can create any color we can see, including white, this combination might work well in aquarium lighting.
Best regards to all,
E
marspeed
Member
Are you still working on this any progress ?
They exist ... Do a Google search for the Mame Design Eco-Light. Intensity and costs are a concern. It's still a niche product for now.
zygote2k
Nuisance Algae
I have LED's over 5 different tanks. 4 of them use PAR38's and Panoramas and one uses a pure white Cannon. I also have a 12 bulb DIY kit. Of the 4 systems that I employ, I have found that when people are making arrays of blue and white in a grid like DIY kit, that considerable spotlighting effect happens. I believe that this is because of the fixed nature of these bulb mounts and that it does tend to wash certain colors out because the blues are very dominant.
While using the PAR 38's on infinitely adjustable heads and concentrationg enough light on the areas with coral, i have found that the light tends to be blended cosiderably better and less washout occurs and if enough light is present, that it tends to look like a MH/T5 combo.
The Panoramas tend to be best used as accent lights because they aren't very powerful. I use them as Actinic supplementation when the main LEDs go off. You can create a dawn to dusk effect with the combination of these 2 systems.
The Cannon is very white with the effect that there is NO fluorescence in the corals, and unless you have very pretty corals to begin with, it doesn't compare with LEDs that have lots of blue.
With all that being said and reading much of the thread, I've come to the conclusion that certain LED light systems are causing this "washed out" look. I believe them to be the kinds that have equal numbers of blue bulbs and are the kinds that are built grid like. Maybe independent dimming of the blues and whites are what is needed to solve the drawbacks of these lights.
If you have enough multi-directional lighting, the "washed out" effect is negligeable.
The other issue here is that unless you have actinic light on some corals, they are really ugly in their natural guises. We have been accustomed so long to looking at these corals in an un-naturally lit state, that we have formed improper opinions as to what these corals should or shouldn't look like. Just because you spent $300 on some Brand Name coral and it looks like A$$, it might not be the LED cuasing it to look "washed out".
FWIW, I believe the Cannon has the purest, most naturally looking light yet to be seen from an LED. Color rendition is excellent and PAR values are quite high.
Foxy Brown
New member
If non-led bulbs are allowed, I think this is an almost perfect solution to the red problem as it is deep-red (660-670nm ish) also supplements the violet/UVA that we're missing from the royal blues.
blasterman789
New member
Because the colors that we see in corals are the result of full spectrum bands, albeit un-even ones. RGB lights create holes in the spectrum and result in stark colors with no depth. I've tried this and it doesn't work. It just compounds the issue of uneven lighting. Even in terms of theatrical lighting you're seeing LED PARs with more than three colors because RGB is too limiting.
The vast majority of LED tanks, and specifically the DIY ones, are cool-white dominant. For the billionth time, there was no reason to start with cool-white in the first place and there's no scientific validity to using reef lights dominated by cool-white LEDs. It all started because cool-white LED have the highest lumen specs, and a couple amatuer LED geeks obsessed with Cree and circuit design assumed this meant something for reefing. It doesn't. The massive cyan and green spike that occurs with cool-white LEDs cancels out warmer colors, especially reds and purples. Cool-white LEDS are designed for brute force lighting applications like parking lots and competiting with HPS street lamps - not reefing. As so they have high lumen values per watt, but utterly horrid color rendition. They get these high lumen values by virtually excluding longer wavelengths of light such as red/orange and amber. Everything I just stated is known industry fact.
Are 6500-5500K T5's or Metal Halides the most popular color temp of those bulbs for reefing? No. why? Because the color would suck even with actinic supplimentation. So, why the hell are we using cool-white LEDs on reef tanks? So we can walk around with PAR meters and make you-tube videos.
The best solution I found is to simply use 4100k-3500k white LEDs which have far less green, and increase the ratio of royal blue. It really, really helps the problem and delivers better over-all color rendition. However, the guys writing all these retarded LED guides and tutorials would have to admit they're wrong, and this won't happen. They want to talk about dimmer circuits and not about color because they only understand the former. Also, once you exclude cool-white from the equation Cree isn't so hot anymore, and that's another fig leaf dropping.
Rather than bicker about it, simply try different color combos on a PC heat sink or something, and note the difference with warmer LEDs. Take two RBs clustered around a single 4100k or 3500k, hold it over a spot on your tank, and note the color improvement. It's not a big investment and will allow you to experiment with different combinations and see for yourself.
blasterman789
New member
Go ahead and stick some 420nm T5's over a cool-white LED dominant tank and it won't help the problem.
Also, show me a T5 or Halide that has significant amounts of 660-670. Most stop around 620-630, which is where LEDs do.
Get rid of the cool-white LEDs and the problem nearly goes away.
Koyaanisqatsi
New member
Yes. I'm currently building the Eagle libraries I need for the footprints and schematic symbols. The board design should come together pretty quick after that since there isn't any "circuit" to speak of. It's just pads to solder wires to and placement of the LEDs.
ErikS
New member
Apparently you're unfamiliar with the Iwaki 6500k? The former king of the reef tank?
So we should add red, a color that has been shown to inhibit growth............which one would figure since it makes no sense to evolve a use for a wavelength that's not present other than in the shallowest depth.
Whatever, rant on...............
That's not an accurate representation of those studies. They were testing a variety of monochromatic light on the oxidation/respiration of zooxanthellae. They found that red alone caused the zooxanthellae to signficantly reduce o/r but that a mix of blue and red exhibited a small reduction which they attributed to a lower intensity of blue (because some of the blue lights were replaced with red). For some reason this has been circulated as 'red inhibits growth', another reefing urban myth. If that were the case a large number of MH and T5's would 'inhibit growth'.
ErikS
New member
It's not an urban myth, the point of the study was to find out the impact of specific wavelengths. At best red does nothing, and to an extent inhibits growth. Why would one want to add light that at it's very best does nothing? For the viewer, so which is the idea - for the livestock or the viewer?
The fiji purple is a good example - for dookie par, why use it?.............oh, that's right for the viewer.
For the viewer is the reason we end up with the freak boxes we all seem to like.............they do not however look anything near natural. Last natural looking light I saw was the afore mentioned Iwaki 6500s - closer to what I've seen in the water..............but like many others I don't really want that look.
Too many tanks around that have done well w/ LED - as with most anything else in this hobby I'd wager it's water quality that is the cause of "fading".
TheDogFather
New member
GBD just posted a first look at the Vertex Light Studio software to control the Illumina fixture.
http://goo.gl/RhRd
http://goo.gl/RhRd
Similar threads
