LED Recommendation Thread

[brassmonkyballs]

Now for the most part, I've heard LED's are great. But there's still some that report color loss or browning.

I was wondering if this was due to either
- a large increase in PAR over their previous non-LED light that is just too much for the corals to take, resulting in fading.
- but I still can't figure out the browning part. I feel like at times this is a result of a non-light aspect as maybe water quality of flow isn't supposed to be.

Now LED's have been around a while, and I've also heard they don't cover the spectrum well. Based off some fantastic LED tanks, I don't believe it for a second.

But could someone clarify this to me? Does LED do an adequate job covering the proper spectrum, say an AI module for instance???

I don't know about the browning but the bleaching is just too much light IMO. Before I went whole hog LED I bought a 14g cube and retro'd the hood solely for experimental purposes. Initially I had a 50/50 cool white/Royal Blue mix. The Royal Blues are in the 450nm range which we've learned is beneficial to our coral. i grew several monti caps which grew very fast, a branching hydnaphora, a couple chalices, and zoas like bam bam, eagle eyes, and some no names. All grew very very well...even fast. With the 50/50 mix the greens got very bright but the reds were not quite as vibrant. The chalices while growing lost a tinge of purple but the green rim on one really darkened up.

Earlier this year a friend brought over an ORA Tri Color Acro to put in it for a test. After a month the purple tips washed out to green but the thing kept growing. We became suspect that the color was too white so I took out half the whites a replaced them with the royal blues. A month later the purple tips came back, the chalices colored back up, and the bright greens got brighter. Now we had it figured out.

The Cree XPG cool whites (DIY, AI) are about 8000k temperature. When I did my 120g build I mixed in a few Cree Neutral Whites (~4000k) to throw some yellow into the mix and I went 2-1 Royal Blue to total white. I have since sold off the small cube and the pieces I had in there are part of my 120 and I can happily report that the tri color has really taken off and the purple has really exploded. The Chalice has doubled in size suddenly and colored up a nice purple with green rim and green eyes. Every SPS i picked up has colored up better than were they came from.

To me some zoas look very different though. Under blues they all look great but when my whites come on a few of them are not as vibrant but look healthy.

So with all that said I believe it really has to do with the power of the fixture with regards to bleaching and the color temp with regards to color.

I do not have 1st hand experience with the AIs but since they use Cree then I think highly of them but would opt for their 'blue' version which I think is the 2-1 blue to white which is what my experimenting over the last year has proven to be a winner for me on my DIY.

 

[Bedroomgangsta]

No optics at all? So just basically the white pad with the led on it? What would be best to get the most spread/least spotlight effect for my 36" tank on a 24" heat sink? Do you think going dimmable is the best right off the bat because I can control the color or if I did ask for more RB leds and less CW on a constant driver @ less cost would that be as effective? The cost is my main issue so Im trying to conserve, granted they pay for themselves in short time.

 

[Bedroomgangsta]

Also, would you recommend the drilled and tapped heat sink, or the one that is not? With a 15$ price difference is the D&T sink easier to put together or would I be fine with the solid one? I wanted to try and keep this under 250$ for the build and eventually add on to it, such as a controller, more led's etc...

 

[Felixc395]

No optics at all? So just basically the white pad with the led on it? What would be best to get the most spread/least spotlight effect for my 36" tank on a 24" heat sink? Do you think going dimmable is the best right off the bat because I can control the color or if I did ask for more RB leds and less CW on a constant driver @ less cost would that be as effective? The cost is my main issue so Im trying to conserve, granted they pay for themselves in short time.

Also, would you recommend the drilled and tapped heat sink, or the one that is not? With a 15$ price difference is the D&T sink easier to put together or would I be fine with the solid one? I wanted to try and keep this under 250$ for the build and eventually add on to it, such as a controller, more led's etc...

Go dimmable, that's for sure. Also 70 or 100 degree optics would spread the best without sacrificing PAR. And the tapped heatsink will probably save you some time, probably worth the extra money IMO.

 

[bamf25]

Well then here's a snapshot from a large DIY thread I participate in....copied and pasted to here. The thread title is DIY LEDs-The Write-up but its a few hundred pages long I believe I would need 3 AI Sols to light my tank. I did this for slightly more than the price of 1. Ask away and I'm happy to answer....and excuse the bare tank...its a new tank build too


Thought some folks might be interested in some PAR readings from my build. Recap:
120G 4x2x2 Oceanic Tech tank
36" fixture
18 Cree CW
6 Cree NW
50 Cree RB
MW HLG 120-42B running the whites and 6 RBs
MW HLG 185-42B running 44 RBs

THERE ARE NO OPTICS ON THIS BUILD

Overall I am very happy and i think in the perfect range and in fact all my corals are responding very nicely...no burnout or bleaching! With optics there is no doubt the top of the tank would be too high. Thats not to say I couldn't add some 60 degree lenses on the very front row and the ends to focus a bit more on the sand and the sides of the tank.

The bottom row of measurements are on the sand next to the glass with the end readings in the corners so well away from the fixture. The ends of the center and top rows were taken just outside the fixture ends but the middle is under the fixture. I also am led to believe that the sensor reads the RB ~20% low due to the narrow spectrum but who knows.

Here they are

You have the same tank as I have and you are running a very similar led build!! I have 13 cw, 13 nw, 4 blue, and 39 rb running of 5 eln's all retrofitted into a 48 inch fixture, no optics, about 4 inches over the water. Works awsome.

 

[brassmonkyballs]

You have the same tank as I have and you are running a very similar led build!! I have 13 cw, 13 nw, 4 blue, and 39 rb running of 5 eln's all retrofitted into a 48 inch fixture, no optics, about 4 inches over the water. Works awsome.

Awesome...4" off you are getting alot of PAR! In retrospect I wish I went with more nw to cw just because the cw are so baddass powerful and throwing a little warmer nw is probably pretty beneficial. I was playing around this evening and holding some 60 degree optics over certain LEDs and noting the difference which is shocking. When I wake up in the morning I'm going to put some on the front row only and only the RBs for my next experiment....get that penetration down to the sand! I don't need them but I have to experiment man!

 

[brassmonkyballs]

No optics at all? So just basically the white pad with the led on it? What would be best to get the most spread/least spotlight effect for my 36" tank on a 24" heat sink? Do you think going dimmable is the best right off the bat because I can control the color or if I did ask for more RB leds and less CW on a constant driver @ less cost would that be as effective? The cost is my main issue so Im trying to conserve, granted they pay for themselves in short time.

Also, would you recommend the drilled and tapped heat sink, or the one that is not? With a 15$ price difference is the D&T sink easier to put together or would I be fine with the solid one? I wanted to try and keep this under 250$ for the build and eventually add on to it, such as a controller, more led's etc...

I'm not using any optics on a large build and the fixture is 8" off the water and the tank is 24" deep. I suggest more RBs AND dimmable drivers. Dimmable drivers are a MUST in IMO. You will want to adjust the color mix...you just have to believe me on it. If anyone else here has experience they can chip in.

I don't recall how much that D&T heatsink cost but if you are a little bit handy and own a drill you can get the same size undrilled heatsink from heatsinkusa.com and drill it yourself. I don't tap anymore. I found that a #40 drill makes a perfect hole for a #4 sheet metal screw. They screw right in with no tapping. I'm pretty sure you could save a bunch of money that way. Tapping yourself is a major pain and i've done but this way is a snap.

If you want to use optics get the 80 degree but as I said before it really depends how high off the water your fixture will be.

 

[goby1kenobi]

Recap:
18 Cree CW
6 Cree NW
50 Cree RB
MW HLG 120-42B running the whites and 6 RBs
MW HLG 185-42B running 44 RBs

Good grief. Can you please translate? What are all the acronyms?

 

[brassmonkyballs]

Good grief. Can you please translate? What are all the acronyms?

Sure...that was copied from the DIY thread I posted in and we all use those acronyms...sorry.

The numbers are the quantities.

Cree is the LED manufacturer.

CW - Cool White is the color temperature (although there's multiple temps within cool white that the LED manufactures call Bins.....but we won't go there )

NW - Neutral white - another temperature

RB - Royal Blue - specific color that emits a wavelength in the 450nm range which is a good thing and provides actinic coloring

MW is short for Meanwell which is the manufacturer of the drivers (ballasts) we use to power the LEDs

HLG 185-42 or HLG 120-42 are the model of the drivers manufactured by Meanwell

Hope that helps....didn't want to get techy on this thread but just pitch in as a viable alternative.

 

[clowndude]

BrassMonkey, if you don't mind me asking what did the entire DIY project cost?

 

[Bedroomgangsta]

Thank you guys so much for the excellent input. I wouldnt mind hanging the fixture close to the surface but my only concern is I feel like I may have to hang it higher considering its a 36" tank with a 23" heat sink. Unless not using optics counteracts the spread by putting it that much closer to the surface...which in a sense would result in more PAR would it not?

 

[Bedroomgangsta]

Also, on heatsinkusa.com would I be better off getting a 8"x36" and spacing the LED's out more with 24 of them, or getting a 8"x24" and keep them closer together? Is it completely necessary to hold them in place via bolts/screws? Does the thermal epoxy work or is it just a PITA? Heatsinkusa.com has wicked cheap prices and with a little bit of work I could drill and tap it in no time for way less cost. Whats the best plan? Sorry about all the questions but this is my first DIY LED and I want it to be done right and not invest a bunch of money into a POS.

 

[brassmonkyballs]

Thank you guys so much for the excellent input. I wouldnt mind hanging the fixture close to the surface but my only concern is I feel like I may have to hang it higher considering its a 36" tank with a 23" heat sink. Unless not using optics counteracts the spread by putting it that much closer to the surface...which in a sense would result in more PAR would it not?

You want a heatsink shorter than your tank. The LED spread around 100 degrees without optics so coverage is not really an issue unless you hang it high....in which case you need tighter optics to focus the light down. I like to go 4-6" shorter on each end of the fixture. So my 48" 120g has a 36" heatsink. Though I probably should have done 40 but its lit all around just some shadows on the ends from the rocks. Don't be too concerned about PAR...you will have more than you need. maybe a 28" heatsink for you.

Also, on heatsinkusa.com would I be better off getting a 8"x36" and spacing the LED's out more with 24 of them, or getting a 8"x24" and keep them closer together? Is it completely necessary to hold them in place via bolts/screws? Does the thermal epoxy work or is it just a PITA? Heatsinkusa.com has wicked cheap prices and with a little bit of work I could drill and tap it in no time for way less cost. Whats the best plan? Sorry about all the questions but this is my first DIY LED and I want it to be done right and not invest a bunch of money into a POS.

Keep the LEDs about 2" apart and each row about 3" apart...seems to always work well for me. Again....I don't tap I just drill a #40 hole and use #4 sheet metal screws with little #4 nylon washers under them which I get at Ace hardware. The thermal epoxy works fine but then think if you ever want to replace, remove, change colors, etc....you can't get them off (though some people will tell you a hammer and screw driver works for that which makes me cringe)...but its totally up to you....epoxy is the fastest way to put them on.

Take your time and ask the questions and it won't be a POS but rather a real nice light fixture.

 

[brassmonkyballs]

BrassMonkey, if you don't mind me asking what did the entire DIY project cost?

Sure its not like I got special places to get stuff from but I just hunt for the best prices.

With the sources I use I got all the LEDs for under $300, the drivers were around $110 each, and I think the heatsink was around $100 so call it $600 not counting the odds and ends of screws, fuses, wire, solder, etc which depends on what you have laying around...call it another $50 if you don't have any of it.

 

[Lipitor]

People are still using XR-E but every year CREE has something new it seems. XP-G and now XM-L.

Here is some data on the 3 main CREE models. The XR-E Q5 CW, the XP-G R5 CW, and the XM-L T6 Cool White

As you can tell, the new models use less power but put out more light. In the long run, they will be cheaper than the older models.

As you can see from the above graph, as more amperage is used, there is less and less light given out by the older CREE models. The XR-E Q5 at 1 amp puts out only 67% of what the XP-G CW would at 1amp and only 60% of what the XM-L CW. That means you have to use almost twice the number of XR-E CW to match an XM-L cool white. This is not taking into consideration how much voltage you have to pump into that little XR-E just to get 60% of the XM-L light which is show below.

You can tell quickly by the graph as the amperage goes up, the XR-E uses much more voltage than the XP-G and XM-L. At 1 amp, the XR-E uses 3.7v which is 10% more than the XP-G and a whopping 23% more than the XM-L. That means if you have a 48V driver running at 1mp you can only put 12 XR-E CW or 14 XP-G CW or 16 XM-L CW. That means for the same cost of powering 12 XR-E CW which give you 2824.8 lumen you could be powering 16 XM-L CW which would give you 6208 lumens. See how quickly this adds up? Less power, more light, that is what LEDs are all about. This is why efficiency is so important. Every minute you have a non efficient LED wired up, it is costing you money.

Now this is just the CREE LEDs. Other non CREE LEDs are often much less efficient than the oldest CREE LED

Sfiligoi is the best pendant in the market now. They are using Cree LED and T5 combine (Hybrid). They also have RGB LED install in the fixture for the option. It can control by Apex or Profilux, it also comes with their SFILIGOI controller. It can control every thing as well as like AI controller. T5 & all LEDs are dimmable.

 

[Lipitor]

LED TESTING pictures by redfishnc - Photobucket

here is the best thing you can read

 

[brassmonkyballs]

LED TESTING pictures by redfishnc - Photobucket

here is the best thing you can read

Lipitor that is an awesome link....i need to look at it closer but Thanks!

 

[moondoggy4]

Tagging along

 

[brassmonkyballs]

Good info you're adding here Lipitor. I made a Royal Blue only supplement bar for a friend who added it over his 150 with his T5s and it looks very nice and he's raving to anyone that will listen. So its a good point on that combo of LEDs with T5's.

The tricky part of the XMLs is that to get the most out of them you really have to up the current. True you can get more than an XPG at the same current but the cost difference doesn't justify it unless you push them....and then they are so bright I wouldn't know what to do with them. I know someone is just finishing up a build with some of them at 2000ma so it will be interesting to get his thoughts. He's actually using XPGs and XPE RBs as well.

 

[Felixc395]

Thanks lipitor, good stuff!

Anyone who needs help with ideas in LED's post them here! Let's keep these good conversations going. Anything LED related is welcome!!!