LED/T5 Hybrid ATI Sunpower

[sahin]

I am planning a new tank: 30in L x 20in W x 18in H

I have an ATI Sunpower 6x24watts (bought for less than half price (but new) with non working fans - fixed in less than 20 mins LOL)). I plan to to remove 2 T5 tubes and the ballast and replace these two T5 tubes with 24 Cree Royal Blue LED's.

I was initially thinking of replacing the two T5's with 12 LED's but I've been informed its not a comparable replacement, hence I am going with 24.

Anyway, I have all the bits (LED's and Meanwell power supply etc), and have the know how to execute this in terms of fitting and ensuring adequate cooling etc.

I am going to use 2 Meanwell LPC 35-700 drivers.

The reason for this idea is:

1. I will have shimmer when the tank is in LED mode only, and I may have some slight shimmer when both LED and T5's are lit. I have read one or two threads where T5/LED hybrid lights were done and have been informed that you still get slight shimmer.

2. I will only need to replace 4 tube every 10 months, instead of 6.

3. T5 tubes cost a bit in the UK, so as I have the bits already (may need a few new LED's) I am making a saving right away. It will be a saving of £38 every 10 months which is $55 US.

4. I love the flourescence made by Royal Blue LED's.

5. It is proven that LED's grow SPS corals. It is proven too, that T5's grow and COLOUR SPS corals quite well. This ought to be a very good combination.

6. I will have the full spectral quality with the use of 2 x T5 ATI Blue+, 1x T5 Fiji Purple and 1x T5 AquaBlue Special, so there shouldnt be a lack of spectral quality.

7. PAR with 4x T5's and 24 Cree Royal Blue LED's ought to be very good for a tank that is only 18inches deep (will be more like 16inches once filled in etc).

Your thoughts and experiance please!

Here is the bottom of the Sunpower and where I will place the LED's:

My main problem is going to be dissipating heat. The LED's do put out a lot of heat (I have used them before).

I may get around the heat problem by running the ATI cooling fans at 12volts to get as much cool air into the unit as possible. I know that the fan noise goes up a fair bit at 12v, but I can live with this.

If anyone has done this with an ATI Sunpower or other T5 light unit then please join the thread.

What I'll do later is add links of other threads where T5/LED's have been used together.

Like I said earlier, I love Royal Blue LED's. I have used them with MH and liked the look. I also love T5's. So combined T5 and LED ought to provide good lighting with the best of both technologies.

 

[sahin]

Link below is to user Frode's intended setup. Hopefully he will join this thread.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17546743#post17546743

Link below shows a T5/LED hybrid setup.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1766400&page=6

 

[sahin]

OK, been doing some thinking and came up with this idea which I think is going to work:

Here goes...

Looking at the photo above, you can see point marked "A". These are the holes where the cool air drawn in at the top of the ATI Sunpowers unit, is blown directly onto the T5 tubes. The air then flows along in the direction as shown by the red arrow and exits on the side. So effectively there is a good flow of air from one side to the other.

If I were to use an Aluminium "U" tube and have the LED's fitted onto the U, then seal of the end of the U at point A in red, this will force air to flow from point A to point B, ie travel along the U, and exit at opposite side of the light unit at point B.

This active travel of cool air within the "U" cavity should pick up heat from the LED and dump it out. Of course I will need to ensure that the reflectors are removed and U tube is fixed onto the base well to ensure air is only force out the other end.

What do you think?

 

[madmike]

I think this will work out great! I use 12 cree 3 watt LEDs (8 royal blue and 4 cool white) per 5 foot fixture on my tank and find I get decent shimmer while the leds are on. I run my leds in aluminum channel along the front side of the fixtures and think that your way will give even more shimmer by having them in the middle. They do put out ALOT of heat though, with 12 leds on about a 44" aluminum channel, you can hold your hand on the channel for about 1-2 seconds before it is too hot.

are you planning on running any optics?

 

[madmike]

Will the fixture fire the other 4 bulbs when those 2 are removed? I thought the fixture wouldn't fire if all of the bulbs were not attached correctly.

 

[sahin]

There are 3 T5 ballasts inside the 6x24watt Sunpower. Two are supplied 1 mains connection, hence 4 tubes light together and the other one has its own mains hence the remaining two tubes light together.

I can rewire the slots to get any combination 1,2,3,4,5,6 to light up depending on which bank, 1,2,3,4,5,6 I place the two lines of LED's.

 

[Chrisrush]

Very interesting. I never considered adding LEDs to my sunpower but this is a great idea. Let me know how it works with the heat removal.

 

[sahin]

I completely gutted out my Sunpower today. Took every little bit apart and rewired it so it will light up in the following order:

Front:
Bank 1: T5 - Ati Blue +
Bank 2: LED -12 x Royal Blue Crees @ 700mA
Bank 3: T5 - Ati Purple +
Bank 4: LED -12 x Royal Blue Crees @ 700mA
Bank 5: T5 - Ati Aquablue Special
Bank 6: T5 - Ati Blue +

At the moment I have taken off the one ballast that used to power the two tubes. That leaves the four T5 tubes to light up together with the LED's coming on first as actinic etc.

But I may wire the 4 tubes seperately and incoorporate 4 tiny moonlight LED's into the build to the unit will have and light up in the following:

1. Actinic comes on first - ie Royal Blue LED's
2. T5's banks 1+6
3. T5's Banks 3+5 - this will bring on full lighting
4. The sequence reverses until all that is lit is the moonlights.

If I pull this off corretly, then in an ATI Sunpower unit I will have 24 Cree LED's @ 700mA and 4x24watt T5's and moonlight too! All in one unit, whilst retaining the good looks of the Sunpower pendant. :lol2:

From experiance, I believe this will provide as much (or possibly more) PAR than a 250w halide at 20K.

Not only will I have lots of PAR, but also a good spectral range.

I'm still cooking up ideas about cooling the LED's but having gutted out the Sunpower today and having run 24 Cree LED's inside my JBJ 28G Nanocube hood (all enclosed) I think I can pull this off rather well.

In the next few days I'm going to order a few LED's as I dont have all 24, and a few bits and pieces.

 

[ejcatmul]

How are the LED's attached? Maybe I need to read the thread again cause I missed it

 

[sahin]

I am still looking at the best way to attach the LED's. Either directly to the main plate/chassis marked A, or on "u" channels.

If I attach them directly to the main plate/chassis, then there will be at least 6 x 1inch heatsinked fans sitting directly on the other face of the chassis behind the line of LED's. The main Sunpower fans will draw in cool air, drive the cool air past the heatsinked fans which will draw heat off the chassis.

It should the a bit cooler in the ballast compartment because I have removed 1 of the 3 T5 ballasts.

Or I may go with the U channel idea.

Whichever I go with, I am fairly sure that it will work as I did incorporate 24 Cree LED's running at 700mA inside a nano cube closed canopy along with a 150w metal halide! :smokin:

So, this should work just as well.

 

[Eel-byte]

Watching this one, this is something I was thinking of doing.

 

[JasonBJones]

Great idea overall.

Are you concerned that adding 24 RBs to an already pretty blue set-up might be a bit much? RBs certainly add some great pop, but overdoing them tends to make things look like a 70s black light room.

 

[sahin]

Great idea overall.

Are you concerned that adding 24 RBs to an already pretty blue set-up might be a bit much? RBs certainly add some great pop, but overdoing them tends to make things look like a 70s black light room.

I've changed my mind, I am going to retain 5 of the T5's and use 24 Cree Royal Blue LED's.

I am not worried about the overall Blue look. FWIW I have used 24 Cree Royals with a 150w Phoenix 14K bulb and the light was not overly blue at all.

Although with the 5 x T5's I still have a decent choice of tubes.

Alongwith the 24 Cree Royals I will use either;

3 x ATI Blue +
1 x ATI Purple +
1 x ATI Aquablue Special

If that is too blue, then from experiance with my previous halide/LED setup, I know that the combo below will shift the look to 20k:

2 x ATI Blue +
1 x ATI Purple +
2 x ATI Aquablue Special

I am going to order the bits and pieces tonight.

 

[seashark]

i will folow this as well ,

 

[sahin]

OK, did a bit more work.

I have taken of 1 of the 3 ATI T5 ballasts. Like I said I will be running 5 T5's and 1 row of Cree Royal Blue LED's, so I replaced one of the double T5 ballasts with a single 24watt ballast.

I wired everything up and tested it. All working good.

I can have either all 5 T5's tubes come at once, or 2, and then 3, or 3 and then the remaining two. LED's will be on thier own circuit.

I have found various Heatsinks and tiny heatsink/fan combo at 4.5cm size which will be utilised to aid the cooling process.

I will be mounting the heatsinks and small heatsinked/fans on the reverse side of the chassis. Of course the main ATI fans will draw in fresh cool air into the unit. This cooler air will draw heat off the heatsinks. At the same time 3 strategically placed heatsinked-fans will lift heat off the chassis.

I believe with the 5x24watt T5 (120watts) and 24 Cree LED's at 50 watts , I ought to have veyr decent amount of PAR with good spectrum.

I have been testing the "light spread" using no optics, 80, 60 and 40 degree optics.

My tank will be 18inche in height and the Sunpower unit about 6 inches above the the tank. At 24 inches I have found the best spread of the LED light to be given by the 40degree optics. At that height using the 40degree optics I will get about 13 inches spread of light on the sand. None of the light will be spilling out. I may use a few 60 and 80 dgree optics here and there, but final design of the optics utilisation will be determined once I have the unit finished.

I will post photos once its all done.

 

[Frode]

Hello Sahin,

Here I am, joining the thread.

You know I have similar plans with my ATI Sunpower 6 x 39 watt (though the old model).

I now use this unit in combination with a DIY LED 32 x Cree (12 Royal Blue, 20 XR-E White). Yes, you get a slight shimmer.

I used these aluminium bars as cooling: http://www.led-tech.de/en/High-Powe...ne-Aluminium-LED-Profile-LT-1512_106_151.html (without the cover).

Thought these would fit perfectly in the space of a T5 tube with reflector :idea:

My thoughts on active cooling is to drill a few holes in the bottom of the casing of the Sunpower - about each 10 cm - just above the aluminium cooling bars. I allready have installed three 70 mm fans instead of the single one that came originally with the fixture.

My current DIY LED is dimmable, but in combination with T5, I had rather dim the T5 and keep the LED's at fixed power.

I'm thinking of replacing two T5 lamps with 14 CREE XP-G at 1050 mA each.
I would like to use BJB LED connectors, but haven't found a retailer yet...

 

[sahin]

Frode, thanks for joining my thread.

Please post photos of your Sunpower unit with the 3 fans.

Mine is the new version and has two fans built in which shift a lot of air very well in a "S" shape through the newer sunpower unit.

I was going to stick the LED's directly onto the metal chassis that currently holds the T5 tubes, but that chassis is made of steel of some sort (it is in fact almost identicle is look and feel to the metal parts of computer desktop chassis. This is most likely some kind of steel material and much worse at heat transfer compared to Aluminium (like only 1/20).

I am therefore going to cutout the area where the LED's would stick to and replace that area with a plate of Aluminium for the LED's to be stuck onto. So on one side there will be LED's and on the other side there will be 4 x VGA heatsink+fans to cool the Aluminium plate.

Fresh cool air will be drawn in by the Sunpower so the system will rely a fair bit on active cooling more than Aluminim mass. This will work, but it means that if BOTH the Sunpower fans and the internal VGA fans stop working, then the LED's are toast.

 

[JoshuaG]

I did pretty much exactly what you are wanting to do, just made my own fixture.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1908271

I am running two blue+, two purple+ and about 60/40 on the leds in favor of blue. The color in my eyes in just perfect.

I would suggest running at least 3 LED strips. If I could do it over I would take out one of my T5 bulbs and add another strip, the T5's really overpower the shimmer from the LED's, almost to the point where it's not noticeable anymore.

Just some suggestions!

 

[sahin]

Nearly finished the build. Waiting on a few flat heatsinked fans (need specific low profile design as they need to fit in the very slim ATI fixture.

But I have completely rewired the T5 tubes. I bought a single 24watt T5 ballast to run the lone T5 tube.

I now have from the front;
Tubes 1,4,6 coming on at the same time. Tubes 2 and 5 come on together from a separate power line. And of course location of tube 3 has been filled in by the LED's.

I decided not to mount the LED's directly onto the (possibly) steel chassis. I checked out the heat transfer charecteristics of steel and it is only possibly 1/15 as good as Aluminium. Hence I cut out a section of the chassis and glued an Aluminium plate on the back.

As for the LED's I have used a mixure of 40, 60 and 80 degree optics. I went with optics because the LED's have more an 100 degree operation and the light is just spread everywhere.

I have also spaced the LED's as shown in the photo below. The reason for this is that my tank is going to be 30 inches long and i will have "two islands" short of rockwork hence I felt there was no point in lighting the middle section too much. Also, on most T5 unit, the middle of the unit usually has the highest PAR and I felt I didnt need to concentrate too much additional light here.

Here is a quick shot I took with my Iphone:

I have not put in the reflectors yet as I am still building and didnt want to risk bending/damaging the rather fragile reflectors.

The light is quite blue. Which is good, this is what I like. But I may replace one of the Blue+ tubes with a white tube once the fixture is running over my tank and there are corals in the display.

Heat is an issue and with the limited space inside the fixture, I have to install additional fans inside the unit to cool the LED's sufficiently. The system will rely on quite a bit on active cooling. I will have to use two separate power supplies for the fans in case one set fails. Else $140 worth of LED's will be toast.

All in all, I am very pleased with my work. I think I am probably the first person in the world to modify thier 6x24watt ATI Sunpower and make it into a HYBRID 5x24watt ATI Sunpower with 24 Cree Royal Blue LED's

With the optics on the LED's I estimate I am very much above 250watt halides in terms of PAR. Also, because this is a HYBRID T5/LED system, I can have very good spectral quality as well.

 

[sahin]

BTW; there is actually 20 Cree Royal Blues, and 4 Blue LED's in there, I changed the design slightly along the way and just remembered. The BLUE's do not produce as much Flourescence as the Royals, but do Flouresce slightly differant colours that that the Royals do not excite.