LEDs vs MHs - big picture costs

[Rockhead21564]

Not trying to beat a dead horse, again, but I've been thinking. All the LED folks keep saying how it's so much cheaper than MHs. Has any of truly looked at all the costs? Not just electrical. I've noticed some things that I'd like to throw out there. I went from MHs to T5's to cut electric bill. When I did I found that electric bill went down $100 per month in the winter, but my gas bill went up $150. No heat from lights meant I had to heat the house. Lol. Also my 500 watt heaters were on almost constantly. I found that it was more expensive to run the T5's. I'm wondering if any LED users have seen anything similar? Can you really save $$, or is it just robbing Peter to pay Paul? I'm just adding whole house cost into it. Every action has a reaction. I do live in Northern Michigan, so that could be it. In summer it was a slight savings, not enough to merit the huge cost of LEDs. Thanks for pondering

 

[jerpa]

I think climate will play the biggest factor in each individuals savings. Colder climates will save less because their heaters work more and if you have no need for a chiller in summer before your LEDS you won't save anything there. However your heaters should be more efficient at heating your tank than your MH so you should still save money. If your gas bill went up 150 and your electric bill went down 100 I'd be switching to an electric furnace. Your electric rates must be low enough that you would save a bundle.

 

[bamf25]

Also what is the room like that you keep your tank in? Climate is almost a non factor when many people have AC and central heating. Depending on how you set your thermostat the temp of your room may not vary more than 2 to 4 degrees all year. Also what is the room like. My tank with LEDS is in a smallish room with a fairly large window. During the summer that room can get warm even with the central AC I have. My tank will drift upto around 81 or 82 if the blind is left open (my heaters are set at 78). During the winter that window helps me if I leave the blinds open, and close the room off. Between the tank and that window, that room will stay warmer than the house in general.

I have a 120g DT with leds, sump, skimmer etc. I did switch electrical supplier around when I started up my tank (this dropped my kwh cost about 0.02 cents). So between the supplier change and the tank my electric bill is maybe $10 to $20 more per month than before I had the tank.

 

[aqua80]

also keep in mind that a watt is a watt :
so be it a 250w MH or 250w T5H0 or 250w of LEDS or even a 250w heater, they will all add the same amount of heat to your house and If you have to heat your house to reach a confortable temperature reducing your # of watts won't make you save anything...
of course they will not add the same amount of heat directly to your tank...

 

[Rockhead21564]

The electric bill dropped due to the loss of 1000 watts of MH's and loss of a chiller. Lol, wish it were that cheap. The tank sits in the dining room which is open to kitchen and living room. I think that's a great observation! I'm building a ten footer right now and decided to do MH pendents hung from the ceiling, hopefully eliminating the chiller. I'm guessing room size IS a big factor. I'll dissipating heat into a very large area, heating it in the process. You guys are proving my thought process, it's not always cheaper to go with LEDs. It's an individual thing. Cheaper for some and more expensive for others. Thanks for the input. Love it!

 

[bamf25]

The previous owner of my tank had MHs over it at some point. That fixture ran two 250w MH and two actinic t4 strips at 54 w each for a total for about 600w. He later went to a 6 x 54w setup for a total of 324. He said he noticed a significant reduction in his electric bill. When I set the tank up a went with 65 x 3w LED for a total of 195w of which I am running the lights at only about 50% currently. So all same tank and in theory you can see the large power savings based on total watts of the fixture. My LEDS run very cool. I have a acrylic shield over them which is about 2 inches from the led and I can easily hold my hand against the acrylic at any time.

And yes the room your tank is in makes a monster difference is heat dynamics.

 

[level65druid]

Only savings you will see in this hobby is upfront savings. Buying LEDs to save 3,4,5 years down the road is utter nonsense. I bet 80percent of those people are not even in the hobby or still have the original led fixture by then. And what about the early adapters that are constantly upgrading there LEDs and adding to the overall cost? Which in turn adds more years needed to see savings. All nonsense, if you like the new technology that's fine but save you money in the long run? Don't kid yourself.

 

[bamf25]

My DIY LEDS were cheeper than getting a high end ATI T5 setup. So the upfront cost was less.

 

[atreis]

... I went from MHs to T5's to cut electric bill. When I did I found that electric bill went down $100 per month in the winter, but my gas bill went up $150. No heat from lights meant I had to heat the house.

Effectively you're saying it cost $100 to heat your house with electricity and $150 with gas, which is unusual (here in Ohio, which has cheap electricity, even heating with Propane costs less than heating with electric.) If this is really the case though, when the time comes you should consider a heat pump with electric furnace backup (or better yet, geothermal) instead of gas.

Anyway ...

On the larger question - I've not seen a heat integration analysis for the whole house. It would be interesting, but also has many factors in it that would vary from house to house, geographic location, and relative utility costs.

Something to keep in mind is that, in addition to saving money on electricity in the summer, you also save money from not having to replace bulbs.