Let Them Flash!

[H.Tanaka]

sr71pav,

Thanks for your inquiry.

Yes, you can keep them successfully but as CaptNemo told that it is too hard to get 'a harem' of the same species anywhere. You can add females of a male several days after purchasing a single individual. Females are often hard to tell because of great similarities.

 

[sr71pav]

Well, are they ok in singles? Or are multiple males fine? I thought I saw somewhere that without females, the male's color may dull a bit.

 

[H.Tanaka]

Yes, a single specimen can do well and would live for a long period with a proper care. Also several males can be kept together and as you say some of them may become dull in coloration while keeping, but the chance to see display will much more increase. I choose the latter way; I will keep males as many as possible, but my main purpose is to photograph them.

 

[sr71pav]

Thanks for the quick education. I'll probably pick up that book to learn even more before I get anything. They seem like great fish, and I don't want to mess it up.

 

[Peter Schmiedel]

Hiroyuki, Skip

I could acquire five juvenile / females yesterday. The look exactly as Hiroyuki's picture on fishbase. Size is 1,5 - 2 in. http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Summar...enusname=Cirrhilabrus&speciesname=bathyphilus

The australia shippment was in perfect condition although the fish only arrived the day before I did not hesitate to take them all.

I also placed 1,3 Cirrhilabrus lineatus from the same shippment. They are slightly bigger then the bathyphilus. Already yesterday it was easy to see that the bathyphilus are more shy compared to the lineatus. This morning - before full light was on - both species where building a mixed group. I hope that it will stay like this!

Give me a day or two before I have pictures ready.

 

[H.Tanaka]

Peter,

Thanks for your info and you have got nice specimens. If it comes from Australia it should be true bathyphilus but they will deal in Vanuatu specimens, too. Those juvs and females from both areas are identical in appearance and you should wait for its growth to an adult male.


Yes, I have posted two pics there (shown below you posted above) but now one of them (the right fish from Fiji) seems an undescribed one from Fiji and Tonga that is now in study by us to describe as a new one.

http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Summar...ame=bathyphilus

Anyway I am greatly looking forward to seeing your pictures, and thanks again !

 

[Peter Schmiedel]

Hiroyuki,

Thank you for the quick response! As the shippment also contained labouti, scottorum, lineatus, Chelmon muelleri and Chaetodon rainfordi I am quite sure that the source was Australia. Can I assume that a male of my bathyphilus will look like the picture in Rudies book page 33?

BTW I was wondering if you have a picture from a female scottorum? The males I have seen where very variable in colcor and fully grown - min 14cm - and I asked myself if they where indeed all male or if the females are rather colored too?

Great article in the reefkeeping magzine!!

 

[H.Tanaka]

Thanks Peter,

I hope that you could get the true bathyphilus that is scarce in Japanese market. Yes, yours will become the male very similar to the Australian (Holmes Reef) male with growth, and I really hope so.

There are a very few photographs of the juvenile scottorum; none from underwater but a single shot by John E. Randall. U/W photos of females were taken by friends but they are also rare. I could show the Randal's shot here if you want (I already have a remission to use his photos in my book).

 

[Peter Schmiedel]

Hiroyuki,

yes it would be nice to see Randall's picture of the female.

BWT I hope your book will be available in english?

On the stocklist from Australia where 15 more of the bathyphilus. Even in large. The wohlesaler order them now all and I hope that I can at least take a picture of the adult males when they arrive. But the dealer is abour 3 hrs drive away

 

[zemuron114]

H. Tanaka,

I received some small scotts wrasse in my Australia shipment. Can i conclude these are females?? The full males (i have some 3-5" - one giant one with AMAZING colors) look like these small ones (small ones are duller) but have same markings. They dont fight the small ones but when i put another larger one in they squabble more. So i was thinking they are females. some are only 1-2".

I got some bathiphylus in as well. this time big beautiful males!

 

[Peter Schmiedel]

zemuron,

can you post pictures from the juvenile scottorum and the adult bathiphylis?

Your juvenile fish are females as they are all born as females and will convert to males if there is no social pressure from a dominant male. Some wrasses also seem to change sex if a dominant is already present. The full cycle is not totally clear and probably differs from genus to genus.

 

[Peter Schmiedel]

What is the correct spelling of the species name bathiphylis or bathiphylus? I have senn both name versions now?

 

[H.Tanaka]

Here is a photo sheet of C. scottorum. I found two juv photos, one by John Randall and the other by phil Woodhead.

 

[H.Tanaka]

First of all Cirrhilabrus bathyphilus is correct.

Here is a copy from my recent 'book' on fairy & flasher wrasses that show 58 all the known spp. It is not yet published or it still is in preparation, for some new spp. will be described this or next year.

The "true bathyphilus (*1)" comes only from Holmes Reef of Australia and Chesterfield Bank near New Caledonia, while those from Vanuatu (*2-4) are now in study by me and a friend to determine its status.

The species (*5) is known from Fiji and Tonga (locally called Tonga Flame Fairy Wrasse) that is an undescribed one that will be named by us. The prolonged spine on the first dorsal fin cannot be seen in any bathyphilus.

 

[Amphiprion]

So, do initial phase males actually exist in the Cirrhilabrus? Traditionally, I am aware that this is a 'no', but has research revealed differently? If there are some born males, are they capable of entering the terminal phase?

 

[H.Tanaka]

Some ichthyologists use 'initial phase' for Cirrhilabrus but most do not use the word for the genus, including the expert Dr. John E. Randall. All of Cirrhilabrus will be born as females and a few of them have an ability to change into males. Also I do not use 'super male'; I have no idea what it means for the genus. I think that they are fully-grown males that cannot return to female stages. Small or unmature males can lose colors to female forms of the same spp.

 

[Ironsheikh]

which site sells the best quality blue peacock flashers and/or filamaented flashers? i got one from marinedepot --didnt look that great and died in 3 days but the solar wrasse is still going strong for 5 months now

 

[Amphiprion]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7531707#post7531707 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by H.Tanaka
Some ichthyologists use 'initial phase' for Cirrhilabrus but most do not use the word for the genus, including the expert Dr. John E. Randall. All of Cirrhilabrus will be born as females and a few of them have an ability to change into males. Also I do not use 'super male'; I have no idea what it means for the genus. I think that they are fully-grown males that cannot return to female stages. Small or unmature males can lose colors to female forms of the same spp.

Thank you for verifying that. I honestly wouldn't use it for the genus, either, especially since you said that males result from female sex change--so in essence, they would all be "supermales", so it has little point in describing Cirrhilabrus (it wouldn't really mean anything by saying it). I used the terminology because I wasn't sure if you had a few cases where they were actually born females (you know how things have a way of confounding us). Thanks again.

 

[Peter Schmiedel]

Hiroyuki,

thanks for the pictures and the name clarification.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7531707#post7531707 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by H.Tanaka
...Small or unmature males can lose colors to female forms of the same spp.

Are there any research you know of, which show that this color change triggers also a sex change? Meaning will they just hide as femals to avoid social pressure or will they be fully functional females?

 

[snorvich]

I believe there are three states for Cirrhilabrus. The "initial state" is composed of females and all Cirrhilabrus pass through this state. The second is the initial male state which some females can transition to but this transition is situationally induced. However males in this state can revert to female. The final state is the terminal male state, which again, is situational; all initial males do NOT make this transition. Once they do, however, they cannot revert. It is difficult to make longitudinal studies of dimorphic transitions as the aquarium dynamics are simply not the same as in the open ocean.