Lighting Opinions Wanted

[ppurcell]

I think I have a lighting problem. My SPS continue to brown out even though I have a nutrient poor, low/no phosphate/nitrate system with high alk/ca/mg levels.

I run a 75 gallon AGA display with a dsb/plenum. The depth from the water surface to the top of the sandbed is about 14-15".

Right now I have a pair of 150W HQI's w/Sunpaq(?) electronic ballasts and four 65W PC's driven by an IceCap 660. It's all retro, since my system is in-wall, I don't need a fixture.

I'm considering scrapping both the PC's and the 150W HQI. But I want to try and manage both the expense of the replacement hardware and the ongoing bulb & electricity costs.

My options (somewhat in order of my preference):

1. Dual 250's w/ 2 54W T5 actinics. Preferably HQI w/electronic ballast.
2. Dual 150 or 175's w/4 54W T5's (50/50)
3. Dual 400's (w/12-15K bulbs)
4. Eight bulb 54W T5 setup (workhorse w/IC reflectors)
5. Quad 150's (all 12K's)
6. Something else?

Or better yet, who has a successful 75 gallon SPS tank? What lighting are you using?

I'm annoyed to the point that I'm on the verge of going back to just LPS and leathers. Or don't say it.... FOWLR.

 

[BreadmanMike]

Phil,

I would...

dump the pc's and run a 4 bulb T5 retro on the IC660 or on triads.
Consider switching to SE 175w bulbs and run Iwasaki 15K's on ARO electronic ballasts.

What HQI bulbs are you running now? Maybe switch to a bulb like the Gieseman 10k or 14.5k, Ushio 10k or 14k or AB 10k's.

 

[ghostman]

My opinion is that 250W are the best thing since sliced bread. If you are going to do an upgrade, I would skip the 175W option and 400W is overkill for such a shallow tank IMO. Option#1 in your list would produce amazing results. My next favorite setup would be option#4 with the T5s. I have seen all T5 setups and am very impressed with the color and "pop" of the corals. HTH

 

[jski711]

UM are you sure you don't have a flow issue or something else going on, i also have a pair of 150's but with no actinic supplementation and i have had no sps brown out, actually my green slimer is the fastest growing coral in my tank. i run 14k hamiltons and also have a 75 aga. if you are upgrading regardless, i would go with 6 bulb tek, im doing that soon. if you go t-5 ask around for a good bulb selection. hth.

 

[glassbox-design]

Your lighting could use a boost, but it seems like that is not the problem. You can get colorful SPS under some pretty low output lighting given the right params.

How often are you doing WC's?
What's your flow like?
What do you dose and feed?
What are you po4 levels, export mechanism, type of skimmer?
Temp swings?

eric

 

[ppurcell]

Thanks for the comments so far, I'm still interested in more opinions.

Answers to a couple of questions asked so far:

HQI bulb type & color is Coralife 10K's
Flow consists of:
- SCWD/Mag12 driven penductor closed loop
- MJ1200 behind rockwork
- Dual 3/4" gravity return from Mag 18 return pump to refugium
15-20 gallon water changes conducted using IO every 14 days w/enough seachem reef complete calcium added to raise Ca level to 420
Temp is kept at 79 using Reefkeeper 2
PO4 measures 0 (Seatest reagent test)
ASM G3 skimmer
40W Emperor Equatics UV
Kalk reactor for makeup water
2 stage calcium reactor for alk/ca level maintenance
~200gm Phosar in TLF reactor
Chaeto in a 20g refugium w/4" southdown dsb growing rapidly and pruned often
Food: Rod's Reef food 2-3x week, Dry cyclopeze 1-2x week, live brine 2-3x month, 1/2 cup phyto every 2-3 days, 2 drops garlic extreme in frozen foods.

 

[fishgeeksrus]

I would suggest...
250MH DE We like the 10K Xm's

Reef Optix III Pendant
Blue wave III Ballast

Supplement with URI SuperBlue Actinics

 

[glassbox-design]

I'd be look at some of the other problems before upgrading the lighting. If I were you i'd do the following....

-Stop the phyto dosing.

-Run a bag or carbon passively.

-Up the flow mj mod or tunze stream would be great.

-Check your po4 levels, see if you can borrow a hanna from someone.

-meshmod the G3

-If you're running any mechanical filtration, e.g. filter sock or sponge, rinse them daily.

-Suck up any detritus that is settling. With the flow you have i am pretty sure there are some dead spots.

-I'd also look at changing the salt. many people love IO so take this for what it's worth...but I never had luck with it when keeping SPS. I changed salts and noticed a huge difference. I now use SeaChem Reef Salt but previously used tropic marin with good results.

-Checking the tds of your RO/DI wouldnt hurt either!

-I'd persoanlly also do a vodka+vinegar short term dosing to help "clean" up the tank....but dont want to start a debate on that here....

eric

 

[ppurcell]

Eric,

I'm surprised that you think the flow is too low, I think my turnover rate is somewhere in the range of 25X/hr (1000+600+300)/75, if you don't factor in the penductors; which if you accept the idea that for every gallon pumped, they pull 4 more along, then the turn over is approaching 80X/hr (1000+4000+600+300)/75.

Phyto can be stopped, but my coloration problems existed before I started dosing phyto.

The only mechanical filtration would be the sponge on the G3's standpipe and the chaeto itself must act as a mechanical filter considering it's form and density.

I run carbon in a 2" PVC reactor plumbed off of my return pump. (Rod's design)

RO/DI is 1 or 0 measured at the output of the first stage with 2 stage DI resin. I change DI cartridges as soon as the level goes to 2.

I experimented with a various amounts of vinegar dosing added to my kalk container and only succeeded in creating a bacterial bloom. I'm not likely to start that again anytime soon.

I could change salt, but suspect it would be some time before I would see any change in the sps.

I'll have to check around to see if I can locate a hanna phosphate meter. But I would think that phosphate levels would be non-existant running 200gm of PhosAr

 

[craftytony]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9421755#post9421755 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fishgeeksrus
I would suggest...
250MH DE We like the 10K Xm's

Reef Optix III Pendant
Blue wave III Ballast

Supplement with URI SuperBlue Actinics

I've seen Andrea and Dennis's tank and it looks beautiful! I also run 2 250's. I've heard many things such as "you gotta go with 400" to "250's are plenty" Since you do have a shallow tank though, I would push towards the 250's...

 

[Douglas LEHMAN]

Hello ppurcell
Take a look at cmas.net, their is a picture of my 75 gallon aquarium pre (black Tuesday). It was run with a pair of 250 watt Iwasaki's (changed at 18 months) and a pair of URI 110 watt VHO's (IC 430) (changed at 9 months). I liked it...
I ran AC and Rowa 24/7 with 15 gallon water changes twice monthly, (IO) for me at 35ppt...HTH

 

[glassbox-design]

I wasnt so concerned with amount of flow, but the type. The stream type pumps will provide a wider current helping in eliminating dead spots...

I'd also pull of the sponge but that's just me... i dont care for them or the risk of increasing no3.

Try the lighting, it will certainly help. Way back when I was blasting corals with 400 watters and they looked pretty good.... but now i cant get away with few t5 tubes or 150's with much better coloration due to my water quality. jme.

eric

 

[NewSchool04]

Phil, if you're talking about lights, you've seen my 75 AGA tank. 6 bulb T5 that I would consider a successful SPS tank.

Two 250 MH would also be nice with either a VHO or T5 Super Actinic.

 

[rickyb]

IME I have tried the 175, 250 and 400 MH's. If you want to do MH stick to the 250's and the corals will be happy, and as far as coloration is really up to your liking. I had run the 250 10K XM with VHO's and it was almost the coloration I wanted to achieve.

RickyB

 

[rickyb]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9422360#post9422360 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Douglas LEHMAN
Hello ppurcell
Take a look at cmas.net, their is a picture of my 75 gallon aquarium pre (black Tuesday). It was run with a pair of 250 watt Iwasaki's (changed at 18 months) and a pair of URI 110 watt VHO's (IC 430) (changed at 9 months). I liked it...
I ran AC and Rowa 24/7 with 15 gallon water changes twice monthly, (IO) for me at 35ppt...HTH

The pictures don't do justice.... in person it was AWSOME! :thumbsup:

 

[ppurcell]

Doug, the pic of your tank does look terrific.

Pat, I was counting on you to chime in. I thought your lights were an 8 bulb setup. What model/bulbs/colors are you using? I like the idea of only needing 324 watts.

 

[dohc97]

Pats tank is something else, I have only seen one other tank that even compared to his and it was a bigger tank running over 1000 watts of MH. I would listen to Pats advice

 

[kimoy]

250 and t5 are the way to go IMO. that's what i am using.

 

[NewSchool04]

It's not advice, it's just suggestions!

I have a Tek fixture and use from front to back:

Giesemann Actinic Plus (blue bulb)
ATI Aquablue (12K) white
ATI Blue Plus (blue bulb)
Giesemann Aquablue (11K) white bulb
ATI Aquablue (12K) white bulb
ATI Blue Plus (blue bulb)

I just took out the UV Super Actinic that I had as my first bulb, wasn't all that impressed with it.

 

[dohc97]

Pat i really appreciate you helping out when i was deciding my lighting, great advice and now im having fun with my tek fixture and the colors the t-5s are bringing out.